Ar-2ax amp recommendation

[Steve F]

Brad,

I chose the Kenwood because there weren't any AR retailers near me at that time--1971-74 was the very height (or should I saw low point) of AR's marketing dark period, and most AR equipment was only available by mail order. The AR amp was not stocked or displayed by any store in my area.

Also, the AR amp had developed quite a spotty reliability reputation by then, so the prospect of buying a piece of electronics through the mail that had a poor rep for breakage simply didn't appeal to me.

The AR amp was never even a consideration.

Steve F.

[JKent]

>As long as you guys are using vintage AR stuff, why don't you

>continue to use old American amps such Phase Linear,SAE or

>Adcom.

>Japan and the rest of China has adopted a whole crazy buying habit

>of buying old U.S. gear. They don't buy stuff made there,

>those peeps buy stuff made here, figure it out. Ask yourself,

>why do you buy stuff like AR speakers, and there will lie your

>answer?

gotta say I agree with Frank FWIW (tho I'm not sure about "Japan and the rest of China"). You said you HAVE a vintage AR amp. Why not use it? If you really need more inputs, add the dbx unit I mentioned. There is no more American-made stuff! Even McIntosh was bought by Clarion or some other Asian company. Hey--the Asian stuff is good. Onkyo multimedia receivers give you the most bang for the buck. But if you want a nice vintage system built around your AR speakers, why not go with vintage US-made stuff? The system in my rec room consists of the AR amp, a Sherwood (made in Chicago) tuner & AR2ax speakers. I'm using a Toshiba DVD player, but may hook up my old AR 'table as soon as I fix it up. Oh yes--then there are the extension speakers, run thru a Niles spkr selector: KLH Twelves augmented by MicroStatic tweeter arrays. I love those! Now if I can just wrestle them into the main listening area......

[soundminded]

IMO, the Toshiba DVD player with the 192 kz 24 bit audio chip performs as a CD player flawlessly. At around $40 in some versions sold in Costco it's a steal. I was so impressed with the KD-741 I went out and bought a 5 disc carousel version from J&R for $78. Despite the vast difference in technology and 15 years of intervening time, it sounds identical to my 1 bit 8x oversampling JVC unit circa 1991 (and slightly better than my 20 bit 8x oversampling $750 Denon which died) and even that unit's fixed level outputs were an exact level match. Any difference simply cannot be detected by ear. The comparisons were made using several pairs of duiplicate factory made cds. IMO, any cd player which sounds different from that unit no matter what its price or design is therefore defective to the degree of its difference whether you prefer its sound or not. If I have any gripes with these units at all, it's that the on board display without a TV set doesn't show enough, the cue review could be better, and there is no variable output with a remote controlled volume control.

[JKent]

we're getting a little off topic here soundminded, but I disagree re the Toshiba DVD. I have a 10-yr old Toshiba 2-disc DVD player and it is heavy, well built and works well. Based on that I bought the $40 Tosh at BJs (like Costco). The #@!* thing would skip on DVDs and CDs. Later I learned this is a common problem with these. I ended up giving it to the Salvation Army and buying an Oppo DVD player (GREAT!!) for my "home theater." Moved the 10-yr-old Tosh to the rec room. All's well now.

[Guest treblehit]

>I'm completing the restoration of my 2axs, and I'm looking

>for an integrated, SS amp to power them. Something in the

>Marantz/Yamaha/Sansui(midpriced) range...looking for synergy : )

You've gotten good responses, I'm not in disagreement with any of them.

I've driven 2ax's with everything from a 250w/channel amplifier to a Realistic STA-80 (45w/channel) with reasonable results.

Two of my kids are driving 2ax's with 100w/channel Pioneer HT receivers - and they sound just fine.

I'm guessing by synergy you are looking for the amplifier to impart a character to the sound.

You have an option that might seem kind-of loopy, but I can attest to its being fun.

I'm using a hybrid integrated amplifier. It uses two 12AX7 tubes in the preamplifier but has a solid-state power amp. [note to engineers - I never said it was accurate] It's all the fun of tubes without the hassle of a tube power amplifier.

If I don't like the way my system sounds tonight, I can swap the preamplifier tubes VERY easily and make it sound like something else. 12AX7 tubes are cheap. $10/eachish. The integrated amp is very reasonably priced (especially for something with no old parts and a warranty), gots lots-O-inputs, too.

The stock tubes are ugly, hateful, and smelly. Well, the ones I have were. YECH! So you stick in a pair of ElectroHarmonix tubes and things get much, much better immediately. Want a little more etherial weirdness and a rich and bloomy midrange? Stick in a pair of Sovtek LPS tubes. Want a high end that's open AND somehow in-your-face with a little more thump than the Sovtek but doesn't completely close-down the 3-Dness of it all? Ei Elite tubes gotcha covered (until your ears bleed). Don't want any of that but really, really want something that sounds almost reserved - a flatness? Svetlana. Almost like having a limiter in circuit.

Now, I'm sure you could get many of the same results with various outboard devices - a little microphonics here, a little equalization there, maybe a poorly adjusted dynamic range expander over there. . .

but it's so much easier to just change a couple of tubes!

It's like having an interesting amp and a store that will let you trade yours in on another interesting amp for $20.

I'm talking about FUN here, not "accuracy." A pair of 2ax's is just the ticket for FUN. Not only do they sound very good, not only are they really easy to drive, but you don't have to "fool yourself" into thinking that you might be screwing-up "perfection" with your perfectly perfect LSTs by using a tube preamp stage.

12AX7s don't get that hot (like a huge rectifier and power amp tubes) but they still get warm so you need a few inches above the integrated. Whatever sound you want the amplifier to take-on can be arranged. Yes, they burn-out and yes you have to change them and yes they are non-linear and yes, they can be fun.

No, these don't cost a fortune. Check the Jolida product catalog.

Just a fun thought.

Bret

[soundminded]

>we're getting a little off topic here soundminded, but I

>disagree re the Toshiba DVD. I have a 10-yr old Toshiba 2-disc

>DVD player and it is heavy, well built and works well. Based

>on that I bought the $40 Tosh at BJs (like Costco). The #@!*

>thing would skip on DVDs and CDs. Later I learned this is a

>common problem with these. I ended up giving it to the

>Salvation Army and buying an Oppo DVD player (GREAT!!) for my

>"home theater." Moved the 10-yr-old Tosh to the rec

>room. All's well now.

Sorry to hear you had problems with your Toshiba unit. Both of mine have worked flawlessly for well over a year including with discs that caused the Denon 1520 to completely stop tracking on heavy bass passages from my AR9s. (Speakers which have such enormous LF capability when equalized to sound flat present a whole slew of new problems owners of speakers with more modest LF response never dreamed of.)

[frankmarsi]

hello.

The bigger, the better.

[Guest filedog]

Sounds, good, I've considered separates, but to tell you the truth, I think I'll just go back to Mcintosh. I really love the sound!

[Guest matty g]

Yeah...it was "A Salty Dog" and Loves "Forever Changes" that did it for me. Then I heard The Pretty Things "SF Sorrow". I lost a tweeter on my old beat up shot-in-the-ass 2a speakers on that one. Back then you could still get replacements from AR inc. for $20. Still love those albums and listen to vinyl every day.

Good choice on the Mac, BTW. All of those years of listening back then (before the Pioneer and the ADCOM) I was using a Mac 1700 tied to some hurtin' AR2a's (very similar to your latest find, except the midrange) and I couldn't believe a 40 watt reciever could sound so damn good! The 1700 is just a little too small to drive the 3a's, that's the only reason I'm not using it at the moment. The 4100 is probably better than any receiver you can find out there - plus you already have it. Macs are very special and always worth fixing.

Matt

p.s. - any Genesis with Peter Gabriel or Spirit's "Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus" will also work.

[JKent]

Resurrecting this thread in a shamelessly self-serving way, so apologies for that.

Tom Tyson said some interesting things about the AR Amp here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...on_the_ar_.html

He wrote "It was especially stable with capacitive-reactive, low-impedance loads such as certain AR speakers (AR-LST, AR-LST-II, and AR-10Pi) and electrostatic speakers."

I used the AR amp for a couple of years with my AR2ax's, with great results. Even bought the matching AR Tuner for the setup, but couldn't part with the glowing tubes in my Scott 350C so I never used it. Recently a friend asked me to sell his MAC4100 for him (on that well-known auction site) and when it didn't sell I bought it myself. It's in the shop for a tuneup now while a big powerful Sylvania (yes, Sylvania) fills in.

So... the AR amp, recently serviced, is for sale you-know-where. Just in case anyone is interested. The tuner sold right away.

Never did get around to bi-amping the 2ax's but it can be done with the Sylvania, since it is a '70s quadraphonic beast. Thanks to Onplane for detailed instructions on how to achieve that. If I were keeping the Syl that would be a definite thing on the to-do list.

Kent

[kimberley]

This side of the water (UK) we see few US-made (or at least, US brand) amplifiers - our funny electricity (240v, 50Hz) is one reason, but cost is another; most $ prices seem to be translated to the same number of £, which is quite a mark-up.

Historically, the UK made some quite euphonic (did I hear you say 'under-powered?) amplifiers, & still does, though a lot of the brands are now made in China, rather than in a shed in Huntingdon.

I have driven my 2-ax's successfully with Quad amplifiers, the 405 & the 707 with good results. Quad claimed 'unconditional stabilty' with any load, which is encouraging.

I've also used AVI monoblocs with excellent performance (150 watts-per channel) but also enjoyed the sound and appearance of 2-ax's driven by a BeoMaster 8000; much the same vintage as the AR's, an astonishing look (if you like it - my wife doesn't;http://beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=377) & 150 watts into 4 ohms, 100 into 8, so 'adequate'.

Adam K, London.

P.S. I recently bought a pair of AR-5's with rotted foam to renovate, now the cabinets have been water-damaged in storage. Should I build new cabinets, convert the 2-ax's to 5's (reluctant to irrevocably damage good renovated 'speakers) or build myself some AR-3a clones?

Any advice gratefully received!