Ken Kantor on classical music et. al.

[Carlspeak]

>>What we get is pretty

>>darn good most of the time.

>

>>>I'm sorry to have to disagree there, the more I listen

>critically >>to live music's sound as distinguished from

>the music itself (if >>such a thing is possible) and try

>to analyze what I hear, the more >>obvious the

>shortcomings of the entire recording/playback process

>>>are to me. This is interesting because there are many

>audiophiles >>who claim to hear very subtle differences

>such as between two wires >>but fail to hear these gross

>differences implied in their claims of >>accruacy.

>

>

>A bit of clarification is due here. We are mixing the words

>"accurate" and "pretty darn good". There's

>no way I'll claim a recording is accurate in reproducing a

>concert hall, but the effect is pretty darn good to listen

>to.

>

>Then there's yet another issue. A person listening in the

>balcony will not hear exactly the same thing as someone

>sitting on the main floor let alone someone sitting dead

>center versus someone sitting at the end of the isle near the

>acoustic curtains. This alone throws in far to many variables

>and effectively prohibits us from making an exact recording

>that will play back in a true to life sound.

That last paragraph speaks exactly to the point I was trying to make in a much earlier post within the now locked thread (e.g. the unending list of uncontrollable variables).

Well, I'm back from a week off and have waded thru this ever-growing list of posts and have some new fodder for readers to chew on.

During my trip I picked up the Jan/Feb issue of Sensible Sound Magazine. In it is a very extensive review of a novel/new device called the Trinnov Optimizer.

http://www.trinnov.com/products.php#optimizer

It's been developed by a team of Frenchmen and is intended to duplicate virtually what the studio recording engineer heard during the recording and mixing process. The premise is twofold.

1) The recording and mastering was done with a ITU standard surround sound speaker placement.

2) You, the listener must duplicate the ITU set up (see attachment below for an explination)with at least 3 channels which most of the review covered.

Here, at least, a very important variable of speaker placement duplication is indeed controlled.

Their claims are pretty impressive. Still not as comprehensive as Soundminded's impossible quest for duplicating concert hall and acoustic instruments exactly. However, a read of this article has convinced me that another step forward has been taken in audio technology. The unit which sells for 12 grand is basically a computer hard drive (driven) DSP using a complex set of polynimials. Eventually, the plan is to integrate it into a high-end AV receiver. The reviewer, David Rich even included an attempt to utilize the Optimizer on a pair of KK designed AR302's. The unit had trouble with frequencies above 300 hz - apparently because of the very low crossover point of 500 hz.

It's all about the music

Carl

Carl's Custom Loudspeakers

[rrcrain]

There is a minimum of one other issue preventing my system from accurately reproducing what I hear at a concert..... my Wife.

Using "The Blue man Group" as an example and I've seen them at the Luxor in Las Vegas and in Chicago. There's absolutely no way my 4 10 inch bass drivers can ever reproduce the massive bass one experiences in their performance. Secondly and most importantly, my wife absolutely will not allow me to turn up the volumn that high. And realistically, there's absolutely not a chance on God's green earth my pair of AR90s can reproduce the SPL of a concert hall without self destructing. They sound darn good and as far as I'm concerned, are a testiment to the engineers of the day who designed them.

The next issue is room layout. Try as I may, my wife insists the living room be useful for more than one person listening to music and to be fair, I agree with her.

A few years ago, Aerosmith came to Peoria and I managed to get tickets, abet late and was relegated to the nose bleed section of the stadium. It was a decent enough concert, but their recordings sound better than the concert did, I might as well have been sitting inside a bass trap.

Live performances aren't always better.

[dynaco_dan]

From soundminded Feb 7th 2007 directed to Vern

>Vern, keep at it and you're going to make me throw up.

I just saw this comment this morning.

Thank you for the comment, I really appreciate it.

You really know how to hurt someone's feelings.

Rather a sad comment from someone that I have respected as an intellect, guess I was wrong.

I will turn the other cheek and hope you never ask for help, ever.