blanddawg625 Posted July 25, 2023 Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 Seems like there should be more bass on these. How much difference do the capacitors on the lower board affect this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 What are you driving them with (amp and pre) ? Caps can affect the bass and in my case the LMR recap made a noticeable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briodo Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 I'm sorry to go elementary on you but have seen some posts on reworking these speakers. Have you done a wiring polarity check all the way from amp to drivers on both speakers? That will definitely make a difference. There is a free polarity checker app for iphones I have used to verify polarity as well. Plays a recorded MP3 tone and allows visible depiction of + or - phasing on each driver. I think it's called Speaker Pop. I have multiple amps running speakers in different rooms and use that app to get polarity correct across the suite of speakers. My wife loves that (just kidding) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanddawg625 Posted July 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 2 hours ago, DavidR said: What are you driving them with (amp and pre) ? Caps can affect the bass and in my case the LMR recap made a noticeable difference. I am driving them with a restored Yamaha P2200 and Aiyima pre/DAC. The Aiyima is surprisingly quite and has a 2v output so the power is there as the amplifier is rated at 350 watts into 4ohms. I did recap these and replaced all but the 350uf on the lower board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lance G Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 Check your wiring is correct against an accurate wiring diagram. The following may help, or after fully reading make things worse !!! https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/16982-ar-90-first-time-listen-and-amplifier-pairing-question/page/2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 I've mentioned before, when I used my 90s in a HT surround system, my Yamaha AVR identified my 90s as being out of phase. Allowing the Yamaha to correct the issue, resulted in much better bass, with better balance to the rest of the speaker. At the time, my 90s were straight stock, purchased direct from the factory. So, I've always wondered if my woofers were mis-wired out of phase, when built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 The tweeter, UMR and LMR are wired out of phase and the woofers are wired in phased. Just look at the wiring schematic. The series cap (+) is wired to the negative side of the drivers. This is different than the AR9 where all drivers are wired in phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 16 hours ago, blanddawg625 said: Seems like there should be more bass on these. While I understand that it isn't easy to move these speakers around, have you tried repositioning them? I once had my AR90's placed relative to my listening position that turned out to be a bass null which yielded unacceptable results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanddawg625 Posted July 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 3 hours ago, AR surround said: While I understand that it isn't easy to move these speakers around, have you tried repositioning them? I once had my AR90's placed relative to my listening position that turned out to be a bass null which yielded unacceptable results. I have them against a wall, with about 3' clear on either side and about 7' apart. Thought about playing them and putting my hands on them to make sure both are moving at same time and then check one of them against the LMR the same way. My understanding is that the woofers were wired in phase but the other 3 were done the opposite. So, the woofers should move at the same time with each other but should be different from the LMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanddawg625 Posted July 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 Sorry about the double post, but shouldn't the LMR be in phase with the woofers? This seems to make sense because this 8" driver does play the upper bass, does it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 Have you tried switching the polarity of the connection at the rear terminals of one speaker cab? The LMR does not operate in the range of bass that you seem to be missing? What degree of equalization do you have? Graphic equalizer or Pre amp Bass and Treble, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 3 hours ago, blanddawg625 said: Sorry about the double post, but shouldn't the LMR be in phase with the woofers? This seems to make sense because this 8" driver does play the upper bass, does it not? It is not. You'd need to ask the designers why it was done the way it is. LMR is ~200Hz to 1200Hz IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted July 26, 2023 Report Share Posted July 26, 2023 19 hours ago, blanddawg625 said: I am driving them with a restored Yamaha P2200 and Aiyima pre/DAC. The Aiyima is surprisingly quite and has a 2v output so the power is there as the amplifier is rated at 350 watts into 4ohms. I did recap these and replaced all but the 350uf on the lower board. I didn't see where this amp is spec'd for 4 ohm operation. I could have missed it. There is a link to the Owners Manual at the bottom of the page. This was a fine amp in its day. Today's current pushing amps do a better job with difficult loads IMO. http://www.advancedaudiorentals.com/products/details/productid/148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazmoch Posted July 28, 2023 Report Share Posted July 28, 2023 Placement and amp power notwithstanding, nobody mentioned checking the seal of the woofers? When you push the woofer on the right gently in the one of the left should push gently out and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanddawg625 Posted July 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 I used rope caulk from Simply Speakers on all four 10" woofers and on the 8" mid. I am beginning to think that the preamp is the culprit. I get good bass when I turn the LF tone control up a few clicks past flat. Maybe time to shop for a better pre. Preferably Yamaha, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanddawg625 Posted July 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 Found the specs on the P2200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 The 90s have a fairly low impedance dip in the bass. Around 3.2 Ohms down there. Just where you're hearing issues. So, look for high current amps, that can handle low impedances. That's not necessarily high wattage amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 AR-90's very well may go lower than the 4 ohm rating, info claims that they can low as low as 3.2 as Stimpy has indicated. Read older posts here on this site and elsewhere before buying. You may have to spend some dollars in buying an amplifier. Quality sound does not come cheaply no matter what novices say around the web where misconceptions and half-truths run rampant. Research is necessary and by seeking opinions of professionals and people who are at the top are where you will find correct answers. It may mean reading through loads of info, but, in the end you'll feel confident. The inter-web deluge on the amateur sites sometimes does more harm than good. What's the old expression, "opinions are like belly-buttons, everyone has one". https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Audio-IDX/IDX/70s/Audio-1979-11-OCR-Page-0090.pdf FM 211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 9 hours ago, blanddawg625 said: Found the specs on the P2200. Odd that this does not match what is in the Owner's Manual Screen shot> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 In case you don't have one here is a pdf of the AR90 Owner's Manual. There is a graph of the frequency response showing the ohms levels. AR90 Owners manual.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanddawg625 Posted August 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2023 Thank you. I do have an owner's manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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