Guest matty g Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 RE: Comparison of older style 2a design vs. newer style design- Noticed that the description in the library doesn't seem to mention the older style 2a midrange setup with the 2 5" open back cone drivers and tuned cups. Is this design not as common as the single mid driver? The dual mid driver type was the only one I ever saw on the 2a system until more recently when the newer 2a's started showing up. They consisted of two 5" round speakers with fiberglass foam stuffed in the rear openings (damping) and they faced at roughly 25 or 30 degree angles toward each other in a black plastic assembly with a sealed back. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I remember the 2a's sounding very nice when driven with my Dad's Fisher 400 receiver- particularly when the output tubes were replaced. The midrange was very smooth and present. That's the sound I grew up with and what sparked my interest in music at a very young age (how could you not want to listen to everything when it all sounded that good?). Anyway, I hope I'm not mistaken or being too critical, it's just something I happened to notice. I still have a pair of these speakers, and they say 2a on the back label (not 2ax) and they have the little brass "a" on the front grill cloth opposite the AR logo badge.Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 > RE: Comparison of older style 2a design vs. newer style>design->> Noticed that the description in the library doesn't seem to>mention the older style 2a midrange setup with the 2 5">open back cone drivers and tuned cups. Is this design not as>common as the single mid driver? The dual mid driver type was>the only one I ever saw on the 2a system until more recently>when the newer 2a's started showing up.>> They consisted of two 5" round speakers with fiberglass>foam stuffed in the rear openings (damping) and they faced at>roughly 25 or 30 degree angles toward each other in a black>plastic assembly with a sealed back.--The early dual driver housings were die cast aluminum.-The dual drivers were wired in parallel.-- Anyone know what I'm>talking about?> I remember the 2a's sounding very nice when driven with my>Dad's Fisher 400 receiver- particularly when the output tubes>were replaced. The midrange was very smooth and present.>That's the sound I grew up with and what sparked my interest>in music at a very young age (how could you not want to listen>to everything when it all sounded that good?).>> Anyway, I hope I'm not mistaken or being too critical, it's>just something I happened to notice. I still have a pair of>these speakers, and they say 2a on the back label (not 2ax)>and they have the little brass "a" on the front>grill cloth opposite the AR logo badge.>>Matt>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger3834 Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Hello Matt,The comparison in the library is intended to differentiate the early AR-2ax (essentially an AR-2a with the 3.5" CTS-built midrange) from the post 1970 redesigned AR-2ax. Your comments pertain to the AR-2a (1959-1964). All AR-2a's featured the dual 5" carbonneau company built midranges. In 1964, the first AR-2ax was released with the new CTS-built midrange. This driver had better dispersion and was somewhat livelier. AR offered $15.00 kits so that AR-2a owners could convert to the new 2ax design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matty g Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Thanks Brad! That was very informative- I wasn't shure what the "AX" meant. The dates make sense too, as my Dad bought that system in July of 1963. I'm curious about the reference to the manufacturer who built the drivers, though. Didn't AR make their own drivers? Did they only build the woofers and the "super tweeters"?Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 >Hello Matt,>>The comparison in the library is intended to differentiate the>early AR-2ax (essentially an AR-2a with the 3.5">CTS-built midrange) from the post 1970 redesigned AR-2ax. >>Your comments pertain to the AR-2a (1959-1964). All AR-2a's>featured the dual 5" carbonneau company built midranges.>In 1964, the first AR-2ax was released with the new CTS-built>midrange. This driver had better dispersion and was somewhat>livelier. >>AR offered $15.00 kits so that AR-2a owners could convert to>the new 2ax design. Hi Brad;The name, "Carbonneau", has come up previously.Do you know of the history of that manufacturer?Other than the AR-2's dual tweeter arrangement, I have never heard of that company mentioned anywhere.I saw a recent photo of an old Jensen speaker system with a similarly designed but different drivers and housing also at an angle.It would be interesting to know how the engineers at AR decided on that particular tweeter and by using 2 at an angle.The insulation between the cone and the frame was to lessen resonaces I assume.AR was rather generous with their different upgrade field kits, for converting the AR-4 - 4X as well, etc, at a very affordable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger3834 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Keep in mind that AR developed its acoustic suspension woofers first. The Western Electric/Altec 755A was used as the high frequency component to the AR-1 system in 1954. They also used the Carbonneau dual 5” drivers for the AR-2 in 1956. I don't know anything more about that company, perhaps Tom T will comment on it. AR did not attack the midrange and hi frequencies with their own drivers until the AR-3 was released in 1958, with the 2" dome mid and the 1 3/8" dome tweeter. AR did however, make a few modifications to the dual 5” mid/tweeters for the AR-2 and AR-2a systems. In 1964, the AR-4, 2x and 2ax were released with the 3.5" CTS mid. I think CTS was a division of some telephone company… Chicago? I also think AR later bought that company. The first cone type tweeter that AR developed from scratch, was the 2.5” unit for the AR-4x in 1965. It later served in the AR-1x and the redesigned AR-2x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Those of you with CTS and Carbonneau speakers can check them out by finding the EIA (Electronics Industry Association)code which should be stamped or ink marked somewhere on the woofer frame. Below is a link to a WWW site that explains the EIA speaker code system. Included is a list of codes which you may find useful in identifying a woofer manufacturer in the future. FYI - the old "ROLA" 285 code is now used by popular US speaker manufacturer Celestion.http://www.webervst.com/codes.htmlIt's all about the musicCarlCarl's Custom Loudspeakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 > Keep in mind that AR developed its acoustic suspension>woofers first. The Western Electric/Altec 755A was used as the>high frequency component to the AR-1 system in 1954. They also>used the Carbonneau dual 5” drivers for the AR-2 in 1956. I>don't know anything more about that company, perhaps Tom T>will comment on it. AR did not attack the midrange and hi>frequencies with their own drivers until the AR-3 was released>in 1958, with the 2" dome mid and the 1 3/8" dome>tweeter. AR did however, make a few modifications to the dual>5” mid/tweeters for the AR-2 and AR-2a systems. >>In 1964, the AR-4, 2x and 2ax were released with the 3.5">CTS mid. I think CTS was a division of some telephone company…>Chicago? I also think AR later bought that company. The first>cone type tweeter that AR developed from scratch, was the 2.5”>unit for the AR-4x in 1965. It later served in the AR-1x and>the redesigned AR-2x. >Brad,You have covered this very thoroughly, and I can't add much to it. The CTS and Carbonneau companies originally manufactured OEM raw speakers, primarily for the radio industry and early audio industry. AR picked relatively inexpensive raw drivers and then modified them by (1) putting fiberglass below and above the cones for damping and (2) treating the paper cones with a butyl-rubber compound to further correct response anomolies. Even with these modification the speakers were not quite as smooth as the later in-house drivers, such as the 2-1/2-inch AR-4x version made by AR. The real history of the CTS-AR relationship was Chuck McShane, who was a designer or representative with CTS during the development of the AR-4/AR-2ax 3-1/2-inch driver. He subsequently left CTS and went to work for Roy Allison at AR in 1965 (he left in 1975 I believe), and then he was involved in the development of the ceramic-ferrite-magnet woofer for the AR-3a, as well as the development of the revised AR-3a dome drivers, the AR-6 tweeter and other projects. His exact role in the development of these speakers is not clearly understood, but he worked closely under Roy Allison during this time. Prior to CTS, Chuck had been with Sonotograph, and he also had a company known as Globe Tool and Die. He knew the people at Alden Manufacturing Co, makers of stamped baskets and so forth, and AR used this company for many years to make stamped baskets for speakers.--Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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