Kuja Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Hi everybody,At last I've found some time to finish the grilles for my restored AR98LSi speakers: http://www.kujucev.com/ar98ls/ar98.htmI made some frames from MDF and now I have to choose the fabric.I always liked much better the fabric on "classic" ARs than those on more recent models.In a local shop I have found this fabric for an equivalent of US$1.5 per square meter - it is some sort of burlap or something and it is quite rough and stiff.I attached some photos of the fabric in question. The color is pretty accurate.The second one is a "silhouette" photo against the window.This way you can se how dense the material is.What do you think - is it sonically transparent enough?For me this is the most important aspect - I don't want the treble to be rolled off.What is your verdict?http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/1304.jpghttp://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/1558.jpghttp://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/1559.jpghttp://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/1560.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 That stuff looks pretty good to me. Be interesting to see that "vintage" burlap on a more modern speaker.Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Hi there;Sorry, I cannot agree with your method of choosing your grille cloth.Visual appearance is very important, yes, especially for some women.Speaker grille cloth buying, is not as simple as, just buying a yard of this or that.Please refer to Carl's, excellent grille cloth review of a few samples of cloths that he sells and OEM.The cloth should be as sonically neutral as possible.Even the OEM cloths were not perfect, but finding a near substitute today has been very difficult, for most all classic brand speakers.In the old days, when a speaker was reviewed, sometimes when the cloths could be removed, the reviewer, on ocassion, would find a better sound projection, without the cloths over the speakers.But, we all do know what fingers do to an exposed dome driver.After reading Carl's review, you may want to re-think about your cloth material, sorry.Please remember, it takes just as long to re-mount the right cloth, as the wrong grille cloth.Good luck with your decision and please keep us up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundminded Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 The open weave will allow high frequency sounds, the ones you want to worry about most to pass through relatively unattenuated. My test is to hold the cloth over my ear and to rub my fingers very gently together to make the least audible sound possible. I repeat the same process without the grillcloth and if it sounds the same, I will accept it. I just cut away the fabric from an old KLH 6 removable grillcloth and found that it had a second layer of black cloth under it. That was a surprise. I didn't like that cloth and needed the bare frame to use as a template for a second one which I'm making out of masonite (I want them to match anyway.) Masonite is the same material used on AR2ax as well and I've got to make a pair for AR2as which came with no grill cloth at all when I acquired them. BTW, the grill I removed looked very much like the one you chose except it was a nubby open weave tan linen. To each his own. I don't see the need to restrict myself or pay the high price of what someone else calls "grillcloth." There is of course no such thing. Most yard goods stores will have an enormous selection and a single yard or two is usually far more than enough. I think yard goods usually come 56 inches wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Hi there;I can only do my very best, to give the absolute best advice that I know about, at the time, if someone asks a question or just needs help.After over 40 years of hifi enjoyment, which includes a few years of Dynaco and AR stereo equipment servicing, I still don't know everything there is to know.I can only lead a horse to water, I cannot make it drink.If I didn't care about everyone getting the very best advice available, I would have not written anything at all.Referring everyone to Carl's extremely excellent grille cloth review, is the next best thing to a, Consumer Report's, in my opinion.I feel his review was done very professionally and it should not be disregarded for it's high value to us, the members and also viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 I looked at burlap in the early stages of my grill cloth study but found it to be too stiff/coarse.Remember, it's all about the musicCarlCarl's Custom Loudspeakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuja Posted September 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 >Hi there;>>Sorry, I cannot agree with your method of choosing your grille>cloth.>>Visual appearance is very important, yes, especially for some>women.>Hi Vern,Thanks for the answer!If you carefully read my post again, you'll see that the appearance is just for fun - the most important aspect is sonics!quote:>>The second one is a "silhouette" photo against the window.>>This way you can se how dense the material is.>>What do you think - is it sonically transparent enough?>>For me this is the most important aspect - I don't want the treble >>to be rolled off.>Speaker grille cloth buying, is not as simple as, just buying>a yard of this or that.I know that. It just happened that I ran into this fabric - it looks similar to fabrics that were used on vintage speakers, BUT it also is quite transparent and it seems that it won't do much (any?) harm to the music going through it.>>Please refer to Carl's, excellent grille cloth review of a few>samples of cloths that he sells and OEM.>...After reading Carl's review, >you may want to re-think about your cloth material, sorry.I saw excellent Carl's cloth review and this is exactly why I picked this one.Judging by the Carl's photos, it is quite similar in texture to the original AR3a cloth. ...and it looks that it is sonically even more transparent.I attached both Carl's and mine close-ups, so that you can compare them by yourself.>>The cloth should be as sonically neutral as possible.This is what I'm looking for.But I think that any cloth will change the sound by more or less attenuating the high frequencies.My frames are easy to remove if I want to do some really critical listening.On older AR speakers this was not possible, so it seems that the choice of cloth was even more critical.So, did you just disapprove my seemingly feminine method of choosing the cloth material , or do you think that this particular material is not sonically good (is worse than the original)?If it is not good, can you tell me why?http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/1562.jpghttp://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/1563.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynaco_dan Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Hi again;I attack no one here.Sorry, I do not know if you are a man or woman.My comment about women and what they visually like, was based on, for example, the old choice of Sansui speakers, with their carved fret-work wooden grilles, which women were more accepting of, as a piece of furniture, and the plain jane linen AR cloths.The AR speakers didn't have the same furniture appeal.Women also have better hearing than men.I have written all I can about this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Let me step in for one moment before I start my re-grilling project....Carl how much to cover four LSTs with the absolute closest match to an AR-3a, circa '72, with a little left over for mistakes?O.K. I'm outta here, go back to everyone's discussion please.FMfrankmarsi@verizon.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnieo Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Quilting and embroidery stores are good places to look for Irish Linen. It is not a commonly stocked fabric. The most likely stores are the small, one-owner retail shops specializing in these two crafts; stores whose inventory is selected by the owner. Chain stores like Jo-Ann and Michaels tend to deal in high volume items and are not likely to have much; if they do stock any, the choice of color, size and thread count will be limited. It is prudent to begin one's search by telephone.We found only one store here that carries Irish Linen. However, they had an excellent selection in a wide range of colors, many of which were suitable for speaker gilles. Thread counts were 18, 21, 23, 28 and 32 ct.It can be hit or miss, but it exists -- here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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