Vintage AR for surround HT setup

[SteveS]

I was wondering if any of you are using complete vintage AR in a surround HT setup. I presently use AR90's for my main stereo system, but am planning on finishing out my basement within the next year, and moving them there to be used as the mains.

The HT will be centered around the Philips HV20 LCD projector (can’t beat a +$3000.00 msrp projector that I bought for $25.00 at a thrift shop, and it works). For now I hang a 4x6 screen in the den when I use it. In the basement, depending on setup, I figure the screen may be as larges as 8 feet wide.

According to what I have read here http://www.avscience.com/ and elsewhere, if you want to have surround and bass management together, you may as well do it all the way around. In a sense, it is the same argument as dual subs in stereo. (Though not really, due to the more complicated non-standardization of bass management in surround systems.)

Anyway, that started me thinking. I paid $17.99 for my banged up and smoky smelling, beer stained, foam rotting AR90’s. I repaired them and refinished them myself, and now they sing and rumble. Why not use AR90’s all the way around? (5.1, 6.1, 7.1 I do not know what yet)

That (Using all AR90’s) would address these issues

--consistent voicing

--outstanding bass

--consistent treble and midrange height all the way around (the audience will not be on risers, my basement is not THAT big.

--great sound for an unbelievable low price (I will do DIY subwoofers as well, probably Shivas)

Some possible drawbacks:

--no bidirectional or ceiling mounted tweeters or midranges

--no bragging about owning the latest high-tech-gee-whiz speakers

--loss of floor space (though I think I can afford it)

I would appreciate any feedback, ideas, personal experience, as this is brainstorming at this point.

Thanks,

Steve

(Sorry if this is a double post. I tried earlier but it did not post)

[JKent]

Sounds good to me, although I haven't tried it myself. I am not familiar with the 90s, but from what I see in an old AR catalog offered on eBay, that vintage included AR9, AR90, AR91, AR92, AR93, AR94, AR38s, AR28s, and AR18s.

Not sure where the 90s fall in terms of size but I assume they're rather large floor-standing units. Why not look for the smallest in that series to use as the surrounds?

[SteveS]

>Sounds good to me, although I haven't tried it myself. I am

>not familiar with the 90s, but from what I see in an old AR

>catalog offered on eBay, that vintage included AR9, AR90,

>AR91, AR92, AR93, AR94, AR38s, AR28s, and AR18s.

>

>Not sure where the 90s fall in terms of size but I assume

>they're rather large floor-standing units. Why not look for

>the smallest in that series to use as the surrounds?

Yes, the AR90's are second to the AR9's in terms of size, so they are floorstanders. While I could look for the smallest in terms of sonic signature (assuming any smaller ones have it) I would be giving up bigger sound and bass.

When modeling my own little piece of the world, I always tend to look at the pros, and then see how I can emulate it somehow on the cheap. For example, Abbey Road studios use B&W Nautilus 802’s as monitors (all the way around) in their surround setup.

As well, anybody I’ve seen with money and space uses floorstanders in their surround systems all the way around. I can’t afford even old used 801’s all the way around. But I figure I can hunt around for good deals on AR90’s (perfectly fine to my ears). I sure would not turn down the same on AR9’s.

I failed to mention this setup will most likely open the door for surround sound for music as well (more likely for others than myself). Also, the room will be used for music playback and recording, as well as entertaining.

Thanks

[dynaco_dan]

Hi Steve;

Did $17.99 include taxes. lol

I only read about all the deals, I'm moving South.

[SteveS]

Vern,

Just so happens I live in a pretty big city (Denver), and thrift stores are dotted all the way over this town, and I've learned a bit about which ones do not have a clue about old audio gear(or any electronic gear for that matter), and which ones think old John Denver albums are worth more than any other albums--go figure! But still, on any day, it's just luck pretty much.

One experience that makes me cry to think about was seeing a vintage 1960's Guild Maverick tube guitar amp, a rare classic (I play, or at least try to) at a store sitting in the back, waiting to be priced. A sign above the door read, "Do don't disturb employees working in the back" and "Unpriced items will not be sold until put on the floor". I tryed calling for someone anyway and found nobody, but did not try hard enough.

I came back the next day (things move slow in this store, generally)and it was still not on the floor. I asked at the front for help. Finally, I was able to talk with the old guy in back who was in charge. He said, "Oh, we plugged that in and it didn't work." I said, "Well I'll buy it anyway". He said, "Oh, we done already put it in the crusher." I could have cried right there.

What I learned then is these places, be it Goodwill, ARC (Red Cross) Disabled Vets, etc. do not care to preserve anything of value, historical even. All they car about is selling what they have on hand as soon as possible.

If they cannot sell it according to the underpaid idiot's estimate working back there in the rear of the store, it goes in the trash. No telling how many museum quality items (photos, paintings, rare edition books, historical quilts, pottery, folk art etc.) have been trashed by these organizations.

Today, I ignore all signs in thrift shops. I am rude to the end if I need to be to save something like that amp from the crusher (had it been just a dumpster, I would have gone a digging!)

OK. Rant over.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi Steve;

Someone wrote recently that when Henry Kloss passed away that his basement contents were junked.

There apparently was un-told relics from his working history with AR, KLH and Advent etc.

A museum or club should have been called for salvage rights.

Tom Tyson donated an AR-3 speaker to the Smithsonian for public display.

This kind and generous un-selfish act will allow many, many future decades of visitors to see a very important piece of hifi history in the making.

I guess we don't think ahead, sometimes.

I guess Henry didn't have a family member who was thinking of preserving Henry's many, many revolutionary accomplishments.

[SteveS]

>Hi Steve;

>

>Someone wrote recently that when Henry Kloss passed away that

>his basement contents were junked.

>

>There apparently was un-told relics from his working history

>with AR, KLH and Advent etc.

>

>A museum or club should have been called for salvage rights.

>

>Tom Tyson donated an AR-3 speaker to the Smithsonian for

>public display.

>

>This kind and generous un-selfish act will allow many, many

>future decades of visitors to see a very important piece of

>hifi history in the making.

>

>I guess we don't think ahead, sometimes.

>

>I guess Henry didn't have a family member who was thinking of

>preserving Henry's many, many revolutionary accomplishments.

Wow, that is astounding. But thanks to Mr. Tyson.

By the way, I was really wrong in speaking mean-spirited about the wrong people when I said the "underpaid idiots in the rear of the store." These are not idiots, just hard-working people trying to do the best they know how.

I should have been mean-spirited against the managers, district managers, vice presidents, presidents, and other officers, as these are the real people in control, the real idiots who know think they know what they are doing. And the ones who give the orders.

[dynaco_dan]

>Vern,

>Just so happens I live in a pretty big city (Denver), and

>thrift stores are dotted all the way over this town, and I've

>learned a bit about which ones do not have a clue about old

>audio gear(or any electronic gear for that matter), and which

>ones think old John Denver albums are worth more than any

>other albums--go figure! But still, on any day, it's just luck

>pretty much.

>

>One experience that makes me cry to think about was seeing a

>vintage 1960's Guild Maverick tube guitar amp, a rare classic

>(I play, or at least try to) at a store sitting in the back,

>waiting to be priced. A sign above the door read, "Do

>don't disturb employees working in the back" and

>"Unpriced items will not be sold until put on the

>floor". I tryed calling for someone anyway and found

>nobody, but did not try hard enough.

>

>I came back the next day (things move slow in this store,

>generally)and it was still not on the floor. I asked at the

>front for help. Finally, I was able to talk with the old guy

>in back who was in charge. He said, "Oh, we plugged that

>in and it didn't work." I said, "Well I'll buy it

>anyway". He said, "Oh, we done already put it in the

>crusher." I could have cried right there.

>

>What I learned then is these places, be it Goodwill, ARC (Red

>Cross) Disabled Vets, etc. do not care to preserve anything of

>value, historical even. All they car about is selling what

>they have on hand as soon as possible.

>

>If they cannot sell it according to the underpaid idiot's

>estimate working back there in the rear of the store, it goes

>in the trash. No telling how many museum quality items

>(photos, paintings, rare edition books, historical quilts,

>pottery, folk art etc.) have been trashed by these

>organizations.

>

>Today, I ignore all signs in thrift shops. I am rude to the

>end if I need to be to save something like that amp from the

>crusher (had it been just a dumpster, I would have gone a

>digging!)

>

>OK. Rant over.

>

Hi there;

Just adding a personnal comment here.

I just saw recently a pair of Heath AS-102 speakers, (AR-2A equivalent), in good condition for sale on ebay.

Being on a small fixed pension, but no WAF to worry about, I didn't bid on them.

I dreamed about them for nights.

I wrote the seller, but he had already parted the pieces and dumped the cabinets.

I have done previous business with this seller and he won't even wait 2 weeks if I bid now and win.

Heathkit sold several versions of AR speakers.

As far as I am concerned, I would have welcomed them into my AR museum quite nicely.

[JKent]

>I just saw recently a pair of Heath AS-102 speakers, (AR-2A

>equivalent), in good condition for sale on ebay.

>

>Being on a small fixed pension, but no WAF to worry about, I

>didn't bid on them.

>

>I dreamed about them for nights.

>

>I wrote the seller, but he had already parted the pieces and

>dumped the cabinets.

>

>I have done previous business with this seller and he won't

>even wait 2 weeks if I bid now and win.

>

>Heathkit sold several versions of AR speakers.

>

>As far as I am concerned, I would have welcomed them into my

>AR museum quite nicely.

Getting a little off topic here but.... Vern, sorry to hear someone you've done business with in the past would not wait 2 wks for payment. I'd say that's an ebayer to avoid.

Your comments about the heath speakers (AR 2 equivalent) made me curious. Did AR actually make the Heath speakers, or were they equivalent inthe sense that they were the same design?

[Guest SherwoodFool]

Don't forget the original AR 4ch Speaker -the AR-7. They have been showing up lately for exorbitant prices on EBay.

[Guest bocoogto]

I use ARLSTII's for my surround speakers and AR3a's for rear surround. The main front speakers have been a pair of AR9LS's. I don't use a center speaker because of the size of the room and relatively close spacing of the main speakers (9'). The surrounds are 17' apart and the rear surrounds are 28' behind the fronts.

For some time now, I've used a pair of Infinity Quantum III's for the main speakers. While the AR9LS's handle gobs of power and the high end is similar to vintage AR's, the low frequency extension of the Watkins woofers in the Quantum series beats AR's. The EMIT highs are very good also.