Jump to content

AR speakers need high power!


frankmarsi

Recommended Posts

> 4-28-06

>

> Dear members,

>

> All respects to the posters here, but am I correct to assume that

> you’re

> talking about powering big speakers like the AR9’s with low power?

>

> Excuse my shock, but I was there in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and in

> ’70 I was

> powering my ‘home-made’ speakers with Fender 12 woofer speakers

> extracted

> from my 3 year old ‘Fender’ Bassman amp cabinet, (prior to the 2

> ‘Jensen’

> woofers I bought in the ‘Radio-District’, an early lower West-Side

> NYC area

> neighborhood that existed prior to the building of the later fallen

> ‘Trade-Towers’), in hopes of the ‘ultimate-bass’ with my Dynaco

> ST-35, a

> wonderful and mildly strong tube amp (a common design from 1940 on)

> of merely

> 17.5 watts RMS per channel. After that un-rewarding experience, I

> realized

> from reading and much listening I was ready to get my first AR’s by

> late

> 1971. Yes they had to be the AR-3a’s as I listened to every AR

> speaker then

> available. I then proceeded to run my ‘Dynaco’ ST-35 with my very cute

> pre-amp PAS-3x (kit built, and so noisy) to power the 3a’s. The

> power,

> regardless of its apparent tube quality was not nearly enough, ever,

> period! I kit-built my first SS amp the Dynaco ST-120 in ‘72, that

> company’s

> first plunge into SS. To be brief, WOW!, what a difference from one

> amp to

> another, I couldn’t believe my ears, by the way, already then

> ‘Golden’ at an

> early age of 20 years old. It seemed the ‘new-age-of’ sound from

> the 1920’s

> to the then present was finally here for the common man, just like

> my ears

> had hoped for! Especially after listening to ‘Mercury’, special

> RCA, and so

> many of the U.S.’s and England’s best and other good record labels.

> And also

> at many good at the time theater music systems and also studio

> recording

> systems.

>

> After much dismay with the Dyna ST-120, especially after hearing

> bigger and

> more costly amps in all the showrooms around NYC, and since the

> area where

> the new ‘tallest-buildings-in the- world’ were being built didn’t

> allow me

> to go to that part of town looking and listening any longer as they

> torn it

> down. I decided to buy the then ‘new-to-the-seen’ Phase Linear400,

> in the

> still considered then lower and old area up-town of 6th. Ave. and

> 21st.

> Street, an area associated with the then not long ago arrived

> ‘creative-types’. Forget the misled rumors of ‘SS grain, grit,

> flames or

> anything else you may have heard about Phase Linear amps and pre-

> amps, the

> combination sounded great to me and many others from then to the

> present,

> and to everyone who heard my systems back then and through out the

> following

> years to the present would attest to. The rest is current every day

> history

> as I still use that same time and almost ‘cult’ honored high-

> powered 400

> watt per channel at 4 ohms, PL400 amp to this day. And if I may

> behave as

> maybe lesser sites do where the site’s members may list their

> equipment (and

> why not?).

> I have two separate systems: #1, 4-stacked AR-LST’s with 2,

> PL400’s. System

> #2, four-stacked AR-3a’s powered by 2 more PL400’s. .I know my past

> self-taught training about musical sounds and how music (after many

> music

> sessions and live concerts and being a bass player from 1964 to

> 1973 for

> many locally recognized bands, and listening to even early tube

> ‘Victrola’s’

> by RCA and “Magnavox’ and ‘Eico’ kits and “Sherwood’,’ Fisher’s’

> and the

> likes of KLH, Advent, Bozak, MacIntosh, JBL, Wharfdale, Rectilinear,

> Altec,Vox, “Fender” and countless other’s with classical, early

> 50’s Rock,

> be it 60’s,70’s,80’s,90’s rock also, Classical, Symphony, Chamber,

> Opera,

> Marching, or experimental 60’s-70’s, 1920’s-40’s music, or Pop, Jazz,

> Fusion, Reggae, B’way, or practically anything and everything

> recorded or

> live, I felt I knew what music should sound like when produced by

> electronic

> components at home or live. This perception has never waived

> through out all

> these years as my ears knew from each and every time they had to

> able to

> actually enjoy the sounds of music. I know what I know about the

> sound of

> AR and high power amps, whether they be vintage as my favorite

> PL400’s or be

> they Krells’, CJ.’s , Levinson’s, Bryston’s ,Adcoms, or whatever

> one can

> throw at them. My opinion is valid, I feel in terms of ‘real-world’

> listening. If there is any doubt, then at least these ‘Golden-Ears’

> are

> certainly experienced and mature through natural means and devices if

> nothing else to be able to say; AR speakers require high power amps to

> perform their finest! There, I said it once again for all to know

> and trust

> in this musically and electronically uncertain age. Forgive my

> bravado.

>

> Respectfully, Frank Marsi

>

> frankmarsi@verizon.net

>

> P.S. I know if I was listening to Brystons or Krells, Apogees and

> M.L’s,

> etc. etc., perhaps I’d speak differently, but that would be

> disrespectful to

> the greatness of history that has held up as long as AR’s has, and

> of course

> my ears and mind refuse to do that!

> Frank Marsi

P.S.2 H.K. E.V. and all of the AR employees, your labors have all 'paid-off'!

Frank Marsi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest denmarkdrivers

frank, just curious about your opinions on powering thristy speakers with not so powerfull amps. The harmon kardon 730 twin powered reciver is not considered a powerfull reciever is it ?

I just moved and i had them hooked up to a pair of pretty efficiant B&W 630i's ( model before the 603's)

I think the B&W speakers are too efficiant for the room, or the room is too small for the speakers, i hooked up the A 25s now i dont want to go back to the B&W's.

I must be crazy the A25s dont have as much range but in some ways they sound like they have more range, they dont sound harsh, this seems to help every area of the sound stage.

Maybe the A25s sound better because the room is midsized and not a large room ? i spent 1,400 on the BW's in 1997 and i spent 15 bucks on the A25s with covers still on, rare looking because they have no glue marks for the covers. i like them better then my other pair of A25s and better then my B&Ws in this room. i must be crazy ? something wrong with my hearing ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the Dyna A25's. I know these speakers sound good and have some quality components in them, but I'd feel that AR's still sound better in most respects.In 1972 I recommended them to a friend who couldn't afford AR's. Your call of course, but I'm partial to the AR sound, even if you used a AR6 or AR7 instead of the A25's. In a small room the AR-2ax's would be my choice if I had nothing else. The 2ax's seem to be the best when a AR-3a use isn't practical. But don't misunderstand me, I've used 3a's in a small also just because I love their sound so much.

As I stated in my earlier post high power is essential with all AR speakers. Even in a small room you'll want to 'turn-it-up' once in a while,and besides typically with a high power amp you'll have more 'head-room' and bass extention, etc. so that even in such a room the benefits will be realized. Speaking for myself, to be blunt, I do listen at levels at times where most might find it objectionable, hell why shouldn't I, does'nt 'real' music get loud in an orchestra auditorium during cresendos and the like, or how about a live rock band?

Let me know how you make out.

Frank Marsi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest palomar

Frank,

I very much agree that ARs really come alive with plenty of power. Back in the 70's I used to get together with friends and listen to what are now the classics - AR, KLH, Advent, etc. I remember in particular my thoughts about the AR2ax vs the Large Advent.

In my opinion, at low volume levels, both systems had a similar (in a general sense) sound, in that they were both smooth almost to the point of being somewhat dull. But as we started cranking them up, to me, the Advents began getting overly agressive in the midrange and lower highs (we used to say it 'blared'), whereas the ARs really started coming to life. (Obviously, folks partial to the Advents felt that the Advents were coming to life, and that the ARs were always a bit dull.)

In any event, I've always felt that with ARs, they continue to sound better as you turn them up. (Within reason of course. If you're into ear-splitting levels, then Cerwin Vega or equivalent is a much better choice.)

Gary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

>Regarding the Dyna A25's. I know these speakers sound good

>and have some quality components in them, but I'd feel that

>AR's still sound better in most respects.In 1972 I recommended

>them to a friend who couldn't afford AR's. Your call of

>course, but I'm partial to the AR sound, even if you used a

>AR6 or AR7 instead of the A25's. In a small room the AR-2ax's

>would be my choice if I had nothing else. The 2ax's seem to be

>the best when a AR-3a use isn't practical. But don't

>misunderstand me, I've used 3a's in a small also just because

>I love their sound so much.

>As I stated in my earlier post high power is essential with

>all AR speakers. Even in a small room you'll want to

>'turn-it-up' once in a while,and besides typically with a high

>power amp you'll have more 'head-room' and bass extention,

>etc. so that even in such a room the benefits will be

>realized. Speaking for myself, to be blunt, I do listen at

>levels at times where most might find it objectionable, hell

>why shouldn't I, does'nt 'real' music get loud in an orchestra

>auditorium during cresendos and the like, or how about a live

>rock band?

>Let me know how you make out.

>Frank Marsi

Hi Frank;

Heads-up upon Ebay, Frank.

There is 3 separate auctions for EV 30W 30" woofers right now.

These will give you the deep bass that the AR-12" woofers can't reach down too.

Mind you your home may now be too small to accomodate a pair of them.

Heavens to betsy, Frank, could you imagine wearing one of these woofer baskets this summer, to replace your current, but very manly 12" woofer basket hat. lol

Have a great weekend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...