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Do any modern speakers compare?


Guest Pghgeezer

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Guest Pghgeezer

I have a pair of AR2ax's (SNs #AX12349 & AX12358) purchased in the mid-to-late 60s.

The tweeters & midrange speakers on both had ceased to work and, emboldened by what I had read on this forum, I delved into the innards. The crossover pots were in pretty good condition, amazingly, and, with a little fine emery cloth, I was able to scrape the green crud off the controls. Both of the woofers needed to be re-glued to the aluminum rings (I used Gorilla Glue).

After reassembly, one of the speakers works fine, but the other has some splatter that I can't figure out.

In any event, my wife and I are in the process of downsizing in anticipation of moving to a retirement community in the not-too-distant future and I'll probably be getting rid of my babies (the subject of a future posting on this forum).

Now I know nothing compares with a vintage AR speaker, but is there anything out there on the present-day market in the way of a bookcase speaker that approaches the characteristics of these old beauties? I listen almost exclusively to classical music and I want a speaker that DOESN'T impose its personality on the music.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

Cheers.

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>I have a pair of AR2ax's (SNs #AX12349 & AX12358)

>purchased in the mid-to-late 60s.

>The tweeters & midrange speakers on both had ceased to

>work and, emboldened by what I had read on this forum, I

>delved into the innards. The crossover pots were in pretty

>good condition, amazingly, and, with a little fine emery

>cloth, I was able to scrape the green crud off the controls.

>Both of the woofers needed to be re-glued to the aluminum

>rings (I used Gorilla Glue).

>After reassembly, one of the speakers works fine, but the

>other has some splatter that I can't figure out.

>In any event, my wife and I are in the process of downsizing

>in anticipation of moving to a retirement community in the

>not-too-distant future and I'll probably be getting rid of my

>babies (the subject of a future posting on this forum).

>Now I know nothing compares with a vintage AR speaker, but is

>there anything out there on the present-day market in the way

>of a bookcase speaker that approaches the characteristics of

>these old beauties? I listen almost exclusively to classical

>music and I want a speaker that DOESN'T impose its personality

>on the music.

>I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

>Cheers.

You might want to consider downsizing to a pair of AR-4xs or AR-6s. Some re-work might be required on a used pair, but the sound would be very satisfying and quite similar to the AR-2axs you now own, which is to say "natural and uncolored" in sound quality. The big difference would be the size and weight of the speaker boxes. A pair of early vintage AR-6s (the AR-4xs less so) would equal the AR-2ax's in low-frequency performance, and the little 1-1/4-inch tweeter is an excellent performer.

--Tom Tyson

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>Thanks, but I was thinking more in terms of new speakers

>currently being offered.

That’s a tall order. Virtually all of today’s speakers are much brighter than the older AR’s, KLH’s and Advents of the ‘60’s and 70’s, and furthermore, virtually all of today’s speakers are vented designs, as opposed to acoustic suspension designs.

B&W, NHT (Ken designed a few sealed bookshelves when he was there, I believe), Boston, Polk (and others, too) all offer perfectly credible, affordable bookshelf speakers, but they will not have the same sonic characteristics as your 2ax’s.

We can discuss all day whether speakers SHOULD be brighter or not, WHY they are brighter, or whether sealed is better or worse than ported, but that’s not your question. Your question was whether or not any current speakers sound similar to the old AR’s and that answer is, no, not really. However, just because today’s speakers sound different than a 1964 AR-2ax does not automatically mean you won’t like their sound.

Steve F.

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If I was pressed to buy a modern bookshelf speaker I would choose a B&W 602 series (a nice budget bookshelf) or a 805 Nautilis which is a great higher end bookshelf.

There are B&Ws for sale on Audiogon. I believe the current "tube" and "high efficiency" rage that's been the current vogue for about the last 10 years has caused a glut of these speakers. Also, B&W users upgrade to better B&Ws and they also tend not to abuse them.

I have listened to B&Ws at length. My son-in-law has 2 pair. They are truly excellent speakers. Especially for classical music. The high end on them is non-fatiguing. The imaging is excellent. They just don't have the slam of horn speakers. The workmanship or build quality is superb.

I really enjoy the AR speakers because I like to tinker. I have recapped them, swapped the stuffing and am now experimenting with different drivers.

But once again, if I had to sell all my vintage speakers and were forced to live with one pair (not to be altered), it would probably be one of the B&Ws.

That's my opinion.

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Guest denmarkdrivers

I think some newer speakers show promise, weather brighter is better or not is a matter of taste, i tend to like both warm speakers and bright speakers if they sound good.

Sometimes speakers sound to bright sometimes they dont sound bright enough.

I have a few pairs of speakers, and a couple pairs are much "brighter" then the rest, I dont think the brighter speakers i have out perform the not as bright speakers in every area.

I find myself changing them every few months depending on my mood.

The best pair of "bright" speakers i have seem to cover a lot of range in all areas, somewhat in order to compete with the slightly bright tweeters, i like them a lot, with the right imput they sound pretty fatastic.

The warmer pair also sound great a little more natural sound comes out of the warmer pair, the highs are resolute enough to keep them from sounding dull.

The brighter pair have more range in the highs but dont sound quite as natural.

Given the right music the brighter ones can sound a bit cleaner and pic up some minute details in the highs and mids and even lows, the warmer pair pick them up but not as effortlessly, the warmer pair have nice mids, much more natural in the mids. other then that they are hard to compare, i think some new speakers hold promise as well as some vintage ones.

I'm a bit more skeptical about amplifiers, I'm sure they make nice amplifiers that are new, just not in my price range.

Every newer amp i could afford could not touch my vintage amp made in 1978, This could just be my taste but many of my freinds agreed.

I thought to myself, what do i need to beat a rehabbed reciever from 1978 ? 2 thousand or more ? Seems nothing new in the 1 grand range could even compete with it.

Anyonelse have a simular experience ?

happy vintage audio thrift shop hunting craig

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Guest SteveG

I have not spent a lot of time in the stores for a few years, but the offerings for anythink under $1000 per seem pretty pathetic. For your purposes I agree with an earlier reply that a nice pair of 6's would be perfect. I have 4x's also but 6's have far better sound. At low to moderate volume levels it is hard to do better than the 6. If you want to start filling a room though, you will need a 3a or an 11.

SteveG

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Guest Pghgeezer

Well, I haven't got anywhere near $1000 to spend on speakers and, at age 74 , I doubt if my hearing is that discerning anymore, anyway.

I guess I'll just bop over to Circuit City and see what they've got.

Thanks to all for your input.

PghGeezer.

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Hi there;

I will agree with Steve regarding the AR-6 sounding a little bit better than AR-4X's.

The 6's have an extremely competent bass.

I will recommend the earlier AR-4X's though, with cloth surrounds, rather than foam, as a speaker not needing refoamed every 7 or so years.

The 4X's are a slightly lesser speaker than the 6's, but at a lesser price and more readily available.

The 4X's are extremely listenable for it's size and price today and I consider them very good value.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's hard to resist, since your asking.

The speaker that comes to mind when you ask this question is the Vandersteen 2ci or ce, which you can often see for sale used.

The advantage is that they have level controls on the mid and tweeters just as with the ARs. And they are rather laid back, at the normal setting just as with many ARs.

They have first order electrical crossover networks and exhibit very poor vertical polar response which is also a characteristic of the AR-2ax.

I find that the Vandersteens have some good qualities, but overall I do not like them much, but then I don't like ARs either. However, the Vandersteens are quite good in the "sweet spot" far superior to the AR-2axs and you might like them. I could live with the Vandersteens if I had to, however there are better speakers IMO.

By the way, I recently heard the Signature version of the Vandersteen 2Ce and I did not like them, thought they were inferior to the standard version. I did not hear them side by side and therefore this might not be a reliable observation.

Also, you may read many here claiming that most modern speakers are bright compared to vintage ARs, Advents, etc. I've compared both Advents and AR-11s to modern designs and this claim is far from the truth. ARs with the switches full up - bright and forward. I ran -6dB on the mid, and -3dB on the tweeter to get something reasonable.

Pete B.

>I have a pair of AR2ax's (SNs #AX12349 & AX12358)

>purchased in the mid-to-late 60s.

>The tweeters & midrange speakers on both had ceased to

>work and, emboldened by what I had read on this forum, I

>delved into the innards. The crossover pots were in pretty

>good condition, amazingly, and, with a little fine emery

>cloth, I was able to scrape the green crud off the controls.

>Both of the woofers needed to be re-glued to the aluminum

>rings (I used Gorilla Glue).

>After reassembly, one of the speakers works fine, but the

>other has some splatter that I can't figure out.

>In any event, my wife and I are in the process of downsizing

>in anticipation of moving to a retirement community in the

>not-too-distant future and I'll probably be getting rid of my

>babies (the subject of a future posting on this forum).

>Now I know nothing compares with a vintage AR speaker, but is

>there anything out there on the present-day market in the way

>of a bookcase speaker that approaches the characteristics of

>these old beauties? I listen almost exclusively to classical

>music and I want a speaker that DOESN'T impose its personality

>on the music.

>I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

>Cheers.

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Guest Bret

>I've compared both Advents and AR-11s to modern designs and this claim is far from the truth. ARs with the switches full up - bright and forward.<

Pete, you've said that before. I believe you.

I can't remember, did you run any tests on your rebuilt woofers (get an Fs on them?), and what were you driving them with?

Bret

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>You might want to consider the Totem Rainmaker bookshelf-size

>speaker, introduced recently to rave reviews.

Probably not a great idea. I suspect that the Totem Acoustic's “Rainmaker” (what does that mean anyway?) would be an odd choice for Mr. and Mrs. Pghgeezer in their new retirement community. Consider this (overpriced) little speaker: it costs $950/pr new, and even on eBay the price was up in the $500-range for a pair of used speakers. The build quality is very good and the wood finishes very nice, but this expensive little speaker is a “tweak” product, and it requires one to listen in the near field to appreciate its qualities. It cannot be properly placed back on a shelf against the wall, and it cannot be bookshelf-mounted, as the acoustic balance would be severely upset with this mounting. It therefore requires a floor stand -- well out in the room -- to sound its best, and most wives won’t tolerate a couple of ugly little grill-less speaker boxes up on black cast-iron stands out in the middle of their living room or den.

Aside from placement issues, the “Rainmaker” does not appear to be an outstanding speaker anyway with its tiny 5-1/2-inch ported woofer. Even *Stereophile* was unhappy with the electrical measurements of this speaker, and complained about a “warmth” in the bass (false bass, actually) and some peakiness in the treble response (+/- 10 dB in the upper treble range). It would need a subwoofer to bring the low-frequency back up to the level equivalent to the Pghgeezers old AR-2axs. It would probably need an equalizer to flatten the treble peak… but other than that, it should be okay.

In the end, this speaker would probably *not* be a good choice for a variety of reasons. Just my opinion, of course.

--Tom Tyson

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Guest tgw

I recommend you take a look at the Ascend speakers, specifically the model 340SE which uses dual 6.5" woofers. They only sell via the internet and you can google the word ascend and find their web site. They have other models and you can get them in special finishes.

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>...Now I know nothing compares with a vintage AR speaker, but is

>there anything out there on the present-day market in the way

>of a bookcase speaker that approaches the characteristics of

>these old beauties? I listen almost exclusively to classical

>music and I want a speaker that DOESN'T impose its personality

>on the music. I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

>Cheers.

Dear pghgeezer:

Two more speakers come to mind that would likely fulfill your requirements, the Bose 201 or Bose 301. These speakers are: 1.) relatively inexpensive, 2.) reasonably accurate, 3.) practically indestructible, 4.) designed to last forever and 5.) specifically designed to fit on a bookshelf or wall. You would probably be more than happy with them, especially the 301, for the majority of your requirements, and knowing that Bose Corporation will be around for a long time is good to know as well. Incidentally, these Bose speakers are extremely well designed, and once you grow accustomed to the "Bose" sound, they're really quite pleasant.

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_...elf_subcategory

We have not heard from pghgeezer much lately, so this message may be in vain.

--Tom Tyson

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Pghgeezer

Two more speakers come to mind that would likely fulfill your

>requirements, the Bose 201 or Bose 301.

Tom,

Now you're talking! These seem to be very much in my size and price range. Intersting look to them, too. I'll check 'em out ASAP. Thanks a lot for the suggestion. Responses to my ?? had fallen off, so I figured the subject had played itself out...hadn't checked the site for a while. Now I'm glad I came back.

PghGeezer (UNC grad (MA), 1959).

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