Need Ideas on repair of some AR3a spakers please

[roundhome]

well they now have the woofers done and new solon caps and are all back togethere. and sound great playing lots of different stuff to break in the caps.

running them with a onkyo A-10 amp and does vary well with them. after I restore the AR amp I have they will be used with AR turntable and amp

matched system

Jim

[RoyC]

Congrats Jim! Best of luck with them!

Roy

[Guest kfarrand]

Tom and members,

My first post so sorry if I muss up on the protocol.

Just purchased a pair of AR3as (after a long hiatus away from AR - since college days in the 60's) and the tweeter on one unit was damaged in shipment. I would very much appreciate advice on where to look for repairs in the Georgia Florida area. I am willing to drive these units up to 300+ miles to get them to a reputable repair resource. I need to make a claim against the shipper and am not sure what the costs will amount to . . Here's my email to the seller . . .

+ + + + +

"Speakers arrived today (Tuesday, Feb 28).and I just unpacked them. Boxing looked OK, but the plastic front piece of the mounting plate which is in front of and is attached to the basket holding the cone and magnetic assembly for the tweeter (what I call the 'mounting

plate' attaches the tweeter to the wooden front baffle of the speaker cabinet) was broken and had separated from the front baffle of the speaker. The tweeter is hanging from the front baffle by the single remaining screw attached to the front baffle (one of three screws - the other two screws are no longer attached to anything).

This was the only damage apparent on a quick first inspection. I hope that the only work that is required to get these great speakers back up to snuff is replacement of the tweeter (which I'll have to get some advice on re how to do the work or if there is someone within driving distance who can repair for me.  I'll send picts.

I'll need to make a claim with shipper Fedex. . . "

+ + + + + +

BTW, the other speaker seems to be working fine and I'm anxious to get the pair hooked up to my Dynaco Stereo 70 PAS3 combo or my 'new' Scott LK-72.

I'd be glad to hear from anyone on this - either here on the forum or directly to my Gmail account - see below.

Thanks for any assistance fellow music and hifi lovers . . .

Kevin.Manson@Gmail.com

[Guest Bret]

>the tweeter on one unit was damaged in shipment.<

That is such a shame. I feel for you.

From your photo I can't tell if all that's broken is the mounting plate.

If it were me, I'd be doing some-sort of plate repair and keep the original driver (assuming it's still in one piece beyond its obvious problems and works).

[dynaco_dan]

>Tom and members,

>

>My first post so sorry if I muss up on the protocol.

>

>Just purchased a pair of AR3as (after a long hiatus away from

>AR - since college days in the 60's) and the tweeter on one

>unit was damaged in shipment. I would very much appreciate

>advice on where to look for repairs in the Georgia Florida

>area. I am willing to drive these units up to 300+ miles to

>get them to a reputable repair resource. I need to make a

>claim against the shipper and am not sure what the costs will

>amount to . . Here's my email to the seller . . .

>

>+ + + + +

>

>"Speakers arrived today (Tuesday, Feb 28).and I just

>unpacked them. Boxing looked OK, but the plastic front piece

>of the mounting plate which is in front of and is attached to

>the basket holding the cone and magnetic assembly for the

>tweeter (what I call the 'mounting

>plate' attaches the tweeter to the wooden front baffle of the

>speaker cabinet) was broken and had separated from the front

>baffle of the speaker. The tweeter is hanging from the front

>baffle by the single remaining screw attached to the front

>baffle (one of three screws - the other two screws are no

>longer attached to anything).

>

>This was the only damage apparent on a quick first inspection.

>I hope that the only work that is required to get these great

>speakers back up to snuff is replacement of the tweeter (which

>I'll have to get some advice on re how to do the work or if

>there is someone within driving distance who can repair for

>me.  I'll send picts.

>

>I'll need to make a claim with shipper Fedex. . . "

>

>+ + + + + +

>

>BTW, the other speaker seems to be working fine and I'm

>anxious to get the pair hooked up to my Dynaco Stereo 70 PAS3

>combo or my 'new' Scott LK-72.

>

>I'd be glad to hear from anyone on this - either here on the

>forum or directly to my Gmail account - see below.

>

>Thanks for any assistance fellow music and hifi lovers . . .

>Kevin.Manson@Gmail.com

Hi Kevin;

I guess I will speak up here and offer you my opinion and advice.

A short story first.

I had an experience of seeing an AR-5 come in for warantee way back in time.

I still remember that incident quite clearly.

The problem listed was no midrange sound output.

It was shipped to us here in Vancouver from somewhere in Alberta.

I was the first person to look at it.

As always a quick visual once over, then a sound check after making sure the pots were up full.

They sounded awesome, as always, but no midrange, off comes the grill cloth and everything initially looked ok.

A closer look at the midrange, I pulled out the machine screws and lifted the plastic frame, as always, with a screwdriver.

What I saw next, I found very hard to believe, the plastic ring, and the screen was all that was mounted to the enclosure.

I believe there was 3 flat head machine screws that were molded in the plastic ring for driver support.

They had pulled right out of the plastic.

The magnet was rolling around inside the enclosure, fortunately, not damaging anything else.

I only saw this once and I never heard of such an event until now.

End of story.

If those screws were tightened, as is normal from the factory, the cardboard carton and also the grill cloth should have severe damage to them.

I am not an engineer to guess at how many G's of force that enclosure would have needed but, IMO, I will guess, that the speaker would have landed perfectly on it's front flat and a height of 5 - 10' drop would not be out of line.

If the screws are real loose, such as, much more spacing than with just the thickness of the plastic frame, or better yet, missing completely, then with only one screw holding it would need less force to break the frame.

By you saying the boxes looked ok, I would take some pictures of the box and grill cloth of this speaker in particular and please post those.

If you can take a few more photos, I will come back and take a looksee.

[Guest kfarrand]

Thanks for your insights Bret and Vern. I've attached several picts of my wounded AR3a. The speaker with the damaged tweeter (sn #51566) is working (sounding) OK with the woofer and mid connected and the tweeter removed from the cabinet and replaced (without speaker leads being connected) with the only 'spare' I fortuitously purchased before the shipped AR3a arrived. I have played several pieces of music at modest levels (82-89 dB) with no buzzing, rattling, scraping or other sad sounds from any of the drivers. I hope that running the damaged speaker with a tweeter in place (but not connected) will not damage any other components.

I am also at a loss to explain how the damage happened in light of no obvious damage to the shipping carton. I did notice one glitch on the cabinet - the wooden facia surround on the front of the cabinet is slightly (maybe 1/32") out of alignment with the rest of the top of the speaker plane (hard to explain but running a fingernail across the top of the speaker from the rear to the front edge causes a small 'speed bump' when the face plate molding is crossed. The grill cloth had two light spots (one in front of the tweeter - and the other in lower left of the grill about the size of a baseball) and the crossover piece in the masonite grill cloth frame was also damaged. I was aware of the condition of the grill from the sellers picts

In any event, the seller has agreed to refund the shipping costs which may cover repair costs. I appreciate any suggestions re a repair or replacement. The speaker that is in the cabinet now is a rear connection tweeter (are all rear connection AR3a tweeters 4 ohm units?)

A bit surprised that such a heavy tweeter unit would be mounted via such a thin plastic face plate. Picts of units as received attached.

I did not test the damaged tweeter (now wish I had) before I removed it but am hoping that the damage is limited to the plastic face plate (or is it really a 'bucket' surrounding or encasing the entire tweeter with a large flange/lip for a face plate?

Kevin.Manson@Gmail.com

[Guest kfarrand]

Sorry about re-posting the picts. I'm a major player in the 'short attention span' department . . . It's like having an old friend over for a beer and chips having these great transducers back in my domicile (after a 35+ year absence) hooked up to a Dynaco Stereo 70/ PAS3 combo, an AR turntable and Nakamichi 700 Tri Tracer. The Byrds, Doors, Brubeck, Ian and Sylvia, Pete Seeger, Beach Boys and other oldies never sounded better. I'm really enjoying this time travelin' vintage hi-fi . . . This forum has provided many informative and entertaining posts and I thank all who post here and the management for maintaning the board - - - Kevin.Manson@Gmail.com

[dynaco_dan]

>Thanks for your insights Bret and Vern. I've attached several

>picts of my wounded AR3a. The speaker with the damaged tweeter

>(sn #51566) is working (sounding) OK with the woofer and mid

>connected and the tweeter removed from the cabinet and

>replaced (without speaker leads being connected) with the only

>'spare' I fortuitously purchased before the shipped AR3a

>arrived. I have played several pieces of music at modest

>levels (82-89 dB) with no buzzing, rattling, scraping or other

>sad sounds from any of the drivers. I hope that running the

>damaged speaker with a tweeter in place (but not connected)

>will not damage any other components.

>

>I am also at a loss to explain how the damage happened in

>light of no obvious damage to the shipping carton. I did

>notice one glitch on the cabinet - the wooden facia surround

>on the front of the cabinet is slightly (maybe 1/32") out

>of alignment with the rest of the top of the speaker plane

>(hard to explain but running a fingernail across the top of

>the speaker from the rear to the front edge causes a small

>'speed bump' when the face plate molding is crossed. The grill

>cloth had two light spots (one in front of the tweeter - and

>the other in lower left of the grill about the size of a

>baseball) and the crossover piece in the masonite grill cloth

>frame was also damaged. I was aware of the condition of the

>grill from the sellers picts

>

>In any event, the seller has agreed to refund the shipping

>costs which may cover repair costs. I appreciate any

>suggestions re a repair or replacement. The speaker that is in

>the cabinet now is a rear connection tweeter (are all rear

>connection AR3a tweeters 4 ohm units?)

>

>A bit surprised that such a heavy tweeter unit would be

>mounted via such a thin plastic face plate. Picts of units as

>received attached.

>

>I did not test the damaged tweeter (now wish I had) before I

>removed it but am hoping that the damage is limited to the

>plastic face plate (or is it really a 'bucket' surrounding or

>encasing the entire tweeter with a large flange/lip for a face

>plate?

>

>Kevin.Manson@Gmail.com

Hi Kevin;

I don't know if I was clear how strong that 3 bolt fastening method really is.

I will guess, if you took a 20 pound sledge hammer to the cabinet you wouldn't move anything but the cabinet and dent it.

If the tweeter is absolutley, definitely, dead, hold one good edge of that tweeter with a pair of channel lock pliers.

Try to break off a chunk to see, go into the plastic at least as far as the center of a bolt hole, but not actually at a bolt hole.

If the tweeter that you removed, still has the leads and dome, still attached, follow please, these ideas.

Connect speakers leads to the AR-3A, and turn up the tweeter pot to the maximum, and the midrange driver right off.

Lay the AR-3A on it's back, on cardboard or better, and carefully lay the damaged tweeter on a piece of cardboard near, remember the strong magnetic force, the tweeter terminal connections.

Use jumper connectors, alligator clips, etc, to the same two solder connections, and to the tweeter connections, in parallel for temporary testing.

This will tell you if the damaged frame tweeter is still functional.

Is all of the pieces of the broken tweeter plastic frame accounted for?

If the tweeter is still fully functional, perhaps epoxy cement may mend it back together, with a little fibreglass support.

That would be a labour of love job.

If it still functions, then you should restore it back into operation, rather than use the other one.

I did a write-up last year, regarding my adapting rear mounted versus front mounted connections for AR-LST's tweeters, 10 years ago.

If I had known then, what I know now, I would probably still be buying AR-3A, front wired tweeters, off of ebay, they are few and far between, but not impossible to find.

I paid about what they are going for, new, now, 10 years ago, but I ended up with, rear wired, foamed front tweeters.

Is there any audible difference between tweeters, I don't know, I would need 2 rear wired tweeters, to sub in my AR-3A's to see if I can hear any difference.

At the time, I wanted to stay as close as possible to AR's sound quality, so that is the route I chose, then.

If I was to make the same decision today, I don't believe I would wait maybe another 10 years, or more, to accumulate 8 front wired tweeters.

If the present AB Tech supplied tweeters, are different sounding, that is probably still the most effient and less frustrating route to go, today, if no other options are available.

In the case of AR-3A's, maybe in the end, both tweeters may need to be replaced as a set, to match the outputs.

I do believe they are bolt in compatible, as well.

Please let us know more about the damaged tweeter, Kevin.

[Guest kfarrand]

Vern: Hi Kevin;

Vern: I don't know if I was clear how strong that 3 bolt fastening method really is.

Kevin: I agree that the bolts and what they are anchored to are quite robust but the failure point was the (what I consider to be a very thin) plastic flange surrounding the tweeter structure. If the plastic is in fact quite tough then I'm at aloss as to what could have caused it to break. I suspect (but have not confirmed) that the tweeter may still be operable. I'll try your suggested testing set-up to find out.

Vern: Is all of the pieces of the broken tweeter plastic frame accounted for?

Kevin: Yes, I stil have them (two small pieces) and they fit back into the areas where they broke off (but the plastic deformed slightly before failing and I'm not sure how good of a seal I'll be able to make with them fused back in their original locations). BYW, what would be the best material to use to make the seal. The sytrofoam gasket is still abvailable but it has been torn up a bit in the area around the screw holes.

Vern: If the tweeter is still fully functional, perhaps epoxy cement may mend it back together, with a little fibreglass support.

Kevin: I'm open to any suggestions in this regard. I even thought about finding someone to help me fabricate a thin aluminum doughnut (like a large washer) and mate to the back of the plastic plate to give it additional support but would probably have to do this to both tweeters to keep them in a matched mounting plane (not sure how critical this might be but with the short wavelenghts involved perhaps it might be best to keep the two drivers mounted in a similar fashion - though I also don't know how this kind of mounting would affect interaction with the mid-range driver . . .

Vern: If the present AB Tech supplied tweeters, are different sounding, that is probably still the most effient and less frustrating route to go, today, if no other options are available.

Kevin: Who other than AB Tech would have NOS AR3a tweeters for sale? Thanks, Vern for the suggestions!

[dynaco_dan]

>

>Vern: Hi Kevin;

>

>Vern: I don't know if I was clear how strong that 3 bolt

>fastening method really is.

>

>Kevin: I agree that the bolts and what they are anchored to

>are quite robust but the failure point was the (what I

>consider to be a very thin) plastic flange surrounding the

>tweeter structure. If the plastic is in fact quite tough then

>I'm at aloss as to what could have caused it to break. I

>suspect (but have not confirmed) that the tweeter may still be

>operable. I'll try your suggested testing set-up to find out.

>

>Vern: Is all of the pieces of the broken tweeter plastic frame

>accounted for?

>

>Kevin: Yes, I stil have them (two small pieces) and they fit

>back into the areas where they broke off (but the plastic

>deformed slightly before failing and I'm not sure how good of

>a seal I'll be able to make with them fused back in their

>original locations). BYW, what would be the best material to

>use to make the seal. The sytrofoam gasket is still abvailable

>but it has been torn up a bit in the area around the screw

>holes.

>

>Vern: If the tweeter is still fully functional, perhaps epoxy

>cement may mend it back together, with a little fibreglass

>support.

>

>Kevin: I'm open to any suggestions in this regard. I even

>thought about finding someone to help me fabricate a thin

>aluminum doughnut (like a large washer) and mate to the back

>of the plastic plate to give it additional support but would

>probably have to do this to both tweeters to keep them in a

>matched mounting plane (not sure how critical this might be

>but with the short wavelenghts involved perhaps it might be

>best to keep the two drivers mounted in a similar fashion -

>though I also don't know how this kind of mounting would

>affect interaction with the mid-range driver . . .

>

>Vern: If the present AB Tech supplied tweeters, are different

>sounding, that is probably still the most effient and less

>frustrating route to go, today, if no other options are

>available.

>

>Kevin: Who other than AB Tech would have NOS AR3a tweeters for

>sale? Thanks, Vern for the suggestions!

>

>

Hi again Kevin;

What is for sale new today is not, NOS.

NOS, would be the original drivers sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

The ones that we have new today, may be made in China.

I believe someone else has written about them being 8 ohms, using a parallel resistor to accommodate both the 8 and 4 ohms versions.

I am unfamiliar with the plot graphs of the new versus old drivers.

There is a few technical writers here that may have more help and suggestions for you as they read this topic.

When I was shopping around 10 years ago, Vifa was one brand suggested, at about $15.00 each.

These may have needed an adaptor flange to mount in an AR enclosure.

I do remember most all of the tweeters were 6 ohms as well, rather than the required 4 ohms.

My success rate winning on ebay is quite good, on winning a good driver that is, if it was packaged properly, that would have been a bonus.

The most upsetting package that I have received was, 2 - 3/4" AR-2/5 series tweeters, with the brass posts still attached to the leads, in a sterifoam cradle.

The tweeters had done a 180 degree turn in the sterifoam, ripping the wires from the domes.

Gone forever, never to be oogled, caressed or listened to forever and ever.

I believe that any 2 part epoxy will do the job of repairing your driver.

With perhaps some fibreglass just to reinforce the damaged area only.

Another thought would be, to use large thin steel washers, and epoxy them precisely over each bolt hole for uniformity.

You might just visit an autobody shop.

You will not be able to make it exactly as it was, before the damage, but it be functionly close.

Just keep the rear edge flat.

It will be a little ugly, just close your eyes when you look at it.

I am, as well as other members, are hoping that your driver is still functional, for old times sake.

Do use due care, it doesn't take much to wipe out the domes, Kevin.

Good luck and please keep us up to date.

[Guest Bret]

>When I was shopping around 10 years ago, Vifa was one brand suggested, at about $15.00 each.<

We just need Ken or someone at Tymphany to tell us how to make these

http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=111

behave in a 3a, taking into account the 3a's little bump in output at 5kHz from the upper midrange.