Turntables anyone?

[Guest David in MA]

Ever since I got my AR9's, I've been checking out my old records on my Thorens turntable. Call me crazy but I'm beginning to like the record sound better than CDs. This is in part because the ARs does such a great job of reproducing high frequency components and many CDs do sounds "sharp" or "harsh".

Any comments?

Any vinyl listening people out there???

[draftingmonkey]

David,

Oh yeah there are a lot of vinyl folks out there. Have an AR-XA TT that I am currently running through a Dynaco ST-120/Pat-4/Quadapter setup running into 4 AR-3a's. Once I finish my ST-70 upgrades I'll run the TT through it (actually 2 of them).

Also have a Yamaha PX-3 on my big system with dlk speakers (look in members pics section for photos) that also includes an Akai cassette deck and R2R, an Technics 8-Track and a JVC CD-R. Vinyl and tape guy over here and loving it.

If you really get into vinyl there is a pretty good vinyl section in the Audio Asylum. Of course the folks over here are still a nicer group to hang with.

Enjoy the music.

James

[dynaco_dan]

>Ever since I got my AR9's, I've been checking out my old

>records on my Thorens turntable. Call me crazy but I'm

>beginning to like the record sound better than CDs. This is

>in part because the ARs does such a great job of reproducing

>high frequency components and many CDs do sounds "sharp" or

>"harsh".

>

>Any comments?

>

>Any vinyl listening people out there???

>

>

Hi David;

I only became interested in cd's about 10 years ago.

More durable and less noisy would probably come to my mind first.

I hated to buy direct disk recordings at over $20.00 and after the 1st or 2nd playing the pops and ticks started.

I will give you my opinion of all that I have read about the vinyl versus cd war.

The vinyl plays back what was recored on it.

The cd translates what it thinks was recorded.

The frequency response of a cd maybe greater than vinyl but from what I have read, there tends to be a vinyl preference.

When I was more active in hifi , waaayyy back, 0.5% IM and TH distortion was what the numbers were all about.

Less that 0.5% and we thought we had a hot amplifier.

Since then, someone dug deeper, and found other orders or levels of distortion, some we may like and others we may not.

We each are suseptible to harmonics, I believe we each hear and accept them in our hearing differently, as we age, our hearing is deteriorating anyways.

This is also why tubes sound differently from solid state.

There is so much to read today about the war between tubes and solid state, vinyl versus cd's.

Sometimes a combination of tubes and solid state will give one person more of the sound they like, than just tubes or solid state by themselves.

Vinyl seems to have made a comeback, at least in quality recordings.

For now, I find the cd's have a convenience and lower audible noise level that I value over my older vinyls that I have kept.

[Guest OldRelayer]

David, I had the original AR turntable, it was to say the least old. I recently threw it away, because the wiring was too much for me. If we were not moving to smaller quarters with no storage I would not have done that. I am considering buying another AR, still have a stack of Vynll. Most if not all of my Vynll is prestine, I have a Teac DBX cassette deck that will make exact copies of vynll and I haven't been able to detect any difference in a CDs either. So once I bought a record, I would listen to it once and then record it. There is something very satisfying about taking a completely manual turntable like the old AR, rolling the tone arm off your finger, hearing it touch down on the vynll and hearing that nice sound of vynll. Not quite the same as putting a cd in a closed player. There is still a bunch of Vynll available on Ebay, some cheap and some ridiculously expensive.

Before my turntable completely died I was converting some of them to wav files, actually they were probably better than the original CD's, if you remember they didn't quite know what to do with the RIAA equalization.

BTW, there are some things that I like quite a lot on Vynll and find unlistenable on CD. And if you listen to them on a modern speaker system (the ones I have heard), they are just down right tinny. That is a whole other discussion and the main reason I am buying a pair of AR-3a's, can't wait to get them. Hoping they will be as satifying as my AR-5's were, I truely loved those speakers.

Your post may have pushed me to make the move and buy one of those nice AR turntables that I have been eying.

Thanks

Barry

[ninohernes]

Its vinyl for me. CD's have never done anything for me. Vinyl will always be my primary format. I do like SACD's and DVD-A's. They are a very large improvement over standard redbook CD's, but to my ears, vinyl is still the best. I have an AR-XB turntable with a Shure V15VxMR cartridge. I am looking at upgrading my turntable. I have my eyes on a VPI Scoutmaster. Its one of the best tables under $10,000 that I have heard. Its $2500 but it beats tables costing twice its price.

[ar_pro]

Hey, Joe - if you ever have the opportunity, try to listen to the Thorens TD-125 or 126 series of turntables. They're commonly available with an SME arm that was a great match for the Shure V15 series. The Thorens' suspension was (ahem) "borrowed" from the AR's design, and is virtually immune to acoustic feedback. They usually sell in the $400-$600 price range. There's one on ebay, now: http://cgi.ebay.com/Thorens-TD-125-Turntab...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Guest OldRelayer]

I am obviously way out of touch, if you have seen any of my post you will know this. Are there any new Vynll pressings or are they all what was, is.

Thanks

Barry

[Guest David in MA]

>Hey, Joe - if you ever have the opportunity, try to listen to

>the Thorens TD-125 or 126 series of turntables. They're

>commonly available with an SME arm that was a great match for

>the Shure V15 series. The Thorens' suspension was (ahem)

>"borrowed" from the AR's design, and is virtually immune to

>acoustic feedback. They usually sell in the $400-$600 price

>range.

I agree. I heard great things about 125 and 126. I'm looking at 150 or 160 first since it is more affordable.

> There's one on ebay, now:

>http://cgi.ebay.com/Thorens-TD-125-Turntab...1QQcmdZViewItem

I looked this item...It's going to end up going for higher than current bid price. IT is NEW so I figure maybe $700-$800 range...I just can't justify spending that much money on a turntable though. Not now, anyways. Maybe in the near future....

[Guest David in MA]

>I am obviously way out of touch, if you have seen any of my

>post you will know this. Are there any new Vynll pressings or

>are they all what was, is.

This I couldn't tell you. I have about 400-500 records that I've purchased over the years that I am starting enjoy again. With exception of certain titles (Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, etc), I didn't replace them w/ CDs. It would've been too expansive.

I don't care if they never produce new vinyls...there are many old albums you can get at a great bargain price. Music is affordable again!!! Yeah!!!

[draftingmonkey]

Yes, there are new pressings out there. Most coming out of Europe. Look online for new vinyl or if you have used record stores in your area sometimes you will find new vinyl there.

James

[Guest OldRelayer]

>

>I don't care if they never produce new vinyls...there are many

>old albums you can get at a great bargain price. Music is

>affordable again!!! Yeah!!!

I guess there is something to be said for that, most of the great music has already been produced and most of it is on Vynll, if you can find it.

[draftingmonkey]

David (and others),

Since this is a forum dedicated to AR (at least this section) you all may be interested in the following link dedicated to AR turntables, albeit mostly highly modified. It is amazing what people can do to with good vintage equipment.

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/

James

[ar_pro]

The 150 & 160 are great 'tables, David, and actually share some common parts with the TD-125. I don't believe that they had the electronic speed regulation of the 125/126, and they are usually found with a Thorens arm, but they are excellent values, and give fine performance with a cartridge like the Shure V-15 series.

[Guest Bret]

Well, if you're going to do it, might as well do it right.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/category.c...leaning_machine

Bret

[Guest daveshel]

When I got my Van Alstine OmegaStar PAT5 last month and played my first record, I was blown away. I was using a stock Dynaco Stereo 70 and AR-4x speakers.

I had pretty much stopped using vinyl. Maybe the phono sections in Dynaco preamps suffer from degradation to a greater extent or faster than the line stages, because my records just didn't sound the way I remembered, and CDs sounded good.

I guess it's easy to forget how important the phono preamp is, and while I can't say I acutally road tested that many high end competitors, I'd have to say Frank builds a mean phono stage. So far I have only experienced his solid state gear (I have a 170EX, based on the Dynaco Stereo 120). But I am planning to send him my PAS3 and Stereo 70 before too long. Then I can experiment with various solid state/tube combinations. While I decide how to upgrade the TT...

[Guest OldRelayer]

I am looking at a couple of AR-XA turntables. But I can't help thinking there must have been some improvement in turntable technology. A lot of people like Technics for turntables, is there a good reason. There are plenty of fixeruppers on Ebay but if I wanted to do that I wouldn't not have thrown away mine. Am I right thinking that a really straight one with some mods would got for about $200. There is a really nice ES cherry, geeezzee its nice looking, but it looks like that one will be going for over $400, a little out of my budget. Is there a sleeper out there that one can pick up reasonably and is just a great turntable, but most people don't know it?

David, records arn't that cheap on Ebay, where are you getting yours?

I was shocked to see Steely Dan's "Everything must go", their latest relase in a limited edition (1000 copies) on Vynll. As you can imagine a bit pricey, but that is a really nice album and I suspect it sounds great on Vynll.

[Guest David in MA]

For me, I've always wanted a vintage thorens turntable ever since I saw and heard my friend's TD 166 back in 1980's. TD 166 is a cheaper version of 160. Check this site out for Thorens history:

http://www.theanalogdept.com

A very good resource site for Thorens.

Anways, in the 80's I bought Thorens TD 280, which is an entry level Thorens. It sounds pretty good but it's not considered one of Thorens' best work. Of course, this turntable was put in storage when I started my CD collections. However, ever sInce I got my AR9's I've brought my turntable to life and I'm enjoying my old records, which were also brought to life from storage.

>David, records arn't that cheap on Ebay, where are you getting

>yours?

I think shipping cost kills you on EBay...I don't buy online off ebay.

I checked out couple of used records store here in Boston area...I couldn't believe how much they wanted for used records. I expected $2-$3 range but they were marked for $5 - $15 range...gee...

Check out thrift shops once in awhile and you might pickup few records here and there. Usually 50 cents to $1 per record.

Also check craig's list online. Usually, there are people who just want to get rid of their record collections for 50 cents to $1 each.

[Guest David in MA]

>The 150 & 160 are great 'tables, David, and actually share

>some common parts with the TD-125. I don't believe that they

>had the electronic speed regulation of the 125/126, and they

>are usually found with a Thorens arm, but they are excellent

>values, and give fine performance with a cartridge like the

>Shure V-15 series.

Yeah, I'm going to be lurking on ebay and pick one of them up. I prefer 124 or 125 but it's way out of my budget. Also, I think I may get lucky checking out estate sales in and around Boston area...I'll let you know when I socre one of these babies. Hell, maybe I will collect them...

[ninohernes]

>I am obviously way out of touch, if you have seen any of my

>post you will know this. Are there any new Vynll pressings or

>are they all what was, is.

>

>Thanks

>Barry

>

Yes, there is more new vinyl out there than there was 15 years ago. Go to www.acousticsounds.com and click on vinyl. I buy mostly new vinyl.

[Guest Bret]

>A lot of people like Technics for turntables, is there a good reason. <

The Technics tables used a direct drive system where the platter is literally part of the motor. If you remove the platter, nothing in the table is moving and you stare-down onto half the motor. It's really hard to tear one up, making them a favorite for DJs and "scratchers". The expensive ones would come to rock-solid speed very quickly.

In theory their speed regulation also accounts for the record and the drag caused by the stylus (although I can't say how finely this works in practice). They had very good "specs" for their price and their semi-automatic or automatic mechanisms worked very smoothly compared to their contemporaries in their price ranges.

Most of the competition in their various price ranges were belt-driven and while in theory that is better (more isolation from motor noise) it also meant some periodic maintenance was required (oiling a motor and changing a belt).

As far as I know, nobody ever accused them of having really good tonearms (on the models that came with tonearms, which was most of them).

My personal favorite from long ago is a very strange critter, the SL-10. They were expensive and looked like toys.

Bret

[Guest OldRelayer]

So it sounds like sticking with a $200 XA or even an XB isnt' such a bad idea.

The XA and XB are selling for about the same price. Is one prefered. I had an XA, with no mods and I was quite happy with it until recently when it all went to hell. I notice that most of them have Shure carts, I always used STanton, I am betting you can't get those anymore. I have my eye on a couple of XA's, one without a dust cover, does anyone know where you can buy one?

OMG, I just found a STanton like the one I use and its $129, may explain why people use Shure. The reason I used Stanton is that I worked on a radio station in the 70's, they used STanton and you wouldn't believe the abuse those things can take and still sound great, so I figured, if I treat it nice, it will last forever and it basically did. I guess its inflatiion, I suppose I paid the equivlent to $129 back then, but back then I was making very good money.

[Wally]

I am fortunate enough to own a Thorens TD125 with SME3009sII that I bought new in the 70's. In addition I have accumulated a number of other tables including 2 TD150's, TD145, TD115 several Empires,several Duals, Kenwood 'granite base' belt drive,Sony and Technics direct drives. Many vintage cartridges as well. Most important, a fairly decent vinyl collection.

BTW.. vinyl is one of the cheapest sources of material anywhere. I've bought dozens of mint disks at 25 cents to 3 dollars at Sally Ann's, flea markets and lawn sales.

I'm trying to reduce my collection of turntables because, like my speakers, they take up a lot of space. Anyone within driving distance of Toronto, email me if you're looking for a nice table. I'll trade for cash of course, other interesting vintage audio components including, heaven help me, more AR speakers. Prefer a local pickup because these suckers are heavy.

Since I'm on a commercial rant here, I also have a number of very nice vintage receivers and preamps tuners that sound good and look very nostalgic and in my opinion beautiful with vintage speakers like AR's, Bostons etc.

Someone proposed a new section for memebers to talk abou their favorite and test cd's and vinyl. Wonderful idea and a great way for us to expand our libraries with 'critically acclaimed'...LOL... software. Terrific idea... that's what all this hardware is about.

I acquired most of my best records and cd's after I heard records or cd's at fellow audiophiles places or audio stores.

[Guest David in MA]

Hi Wally,

I sent an email letting you know that I'm interested if you are willing to part w/ one of the Thorens. Let me know if you didn't get my email.

Thanks.

[Wally]

I sent you a personal email.

[Guest daveshel]

Hey, not to hijack the thread, but what are you guys using for phono cartridges these days? The last high-end model I had was a Grace, but they don't seem to be in business any more.