" modern design trumps vintage.". A response.

[scottie munoz]

On 5/2/2022 at 4:34 PM, Aadams said:

I am not doing this (yet) but you can stream Lossless Atmos and Hires tracks on Apple Music now..  The catch is you almost always need an Apple device to get to the lossless streams.   In the case of 24/192 you also need an outboard DAC.

I use Tidal for Atmos Audio.  Mostly because unlike their support, notbinvebtion, of the  controversial mqa file format... everything that I've read says that it appears to be a better experience, over Deezer and Apple.  The comment regarding the issues with Apple and some quality and the use of force to use of their Hardware and also the necessity of an outboard DAC....  I guess I could only say cuz I don't have any experience with the Apple that almost always a outboard dac is "usually." A good thing mind you when were the other however you want to sign it then apples also an outboard DAC is almost always Improvement. almost always.... in my experience.

 In fact the weakest part I believe in my most recent set up chain I believe is the use of even a higher-end Onkyo AVR are as a "preamp" and DAC mostly because I've spent most of my energy concentrated on the speaker side. However I don't even know how a DAC works in acmulti-channel immersive sound format.  I suppose if I went the real pre-pro route, say with an Emotive preamp that could support multichannel and Atmos would likely have a much better DAC, or support for a better multichannel DAC.

  I'm by no means knowledgeable on any aspects and all of this information. I'm looking for just as much as everyone else I imagine.

Does anybody know of a outboard standalone multi-channel DAC that supports Atmos, DTS?

-Scottie

PS.....With with the use of a most recent generation Fire Cube as wifi streamer and a extremely fast Wi-Fi connection, I found no differences between the few physical Atmos sources I have and streaming with Tidal.

 Those may or may not be issues with the author of the post that's having those issues with Apple, of which I don't have any experience with or the forced usage of Apple's Hardware.  

None of those concerns, however, I take lightly, seeing as I think it's essential to Atmos's survival and flourishing as the future of music replication is highly....crucially  dependent on the fact that it's not seen as a cash grab so endemic of the previous or at least the end of the previous mid to high-end loudspeaker industry by marketers and that it's as user-friendly as humanly possible which doesn't seem to be.  there's not even a consensus on the proper Atmos audio set up as of yet.

Edited May 5, 2022 by scottie munoz
Grammar

[AR surround]

18 hours ago, scottie munoz said:

Does anybody know of a outboard standalone multi-channel DAC that supports Atmos, DTS?

Unfortunately, no.  We are limited to either a pre-pro or an AVR.   The DACs in the better pre-pros and AVRs are quite good, and the room correction that also comes with these units is essential with a set up with speakers all over the bloody place.

[Aadams]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:24 PM, genek said:

And most of today's audio consumers are looking for something very different than what what was popular 40 or 50 years ago.

The above quote, combined with mass consumption of music through earbuds and headphones among young consumers, is the reason traffic in the AR forum and this site in general has slowed to fewer than one post per day.

[AR55]

I think genek & Aadams are correct.  I also think that the fascination that people, particularly Millennials, had for vinyl and vintage gear is beginning to fade.  Once again connivence & portability dominate.  Twelve years ago, my daughter was ecstatic when I put together a vintage system for her to play vinyl records.  The system includes a pair of AR-98LS’, a Pioneer SA-7500 integrated amp & a Dual CS621 turntable with a Shure M97XE cartridge.  She was the envy of her friends.  She went on to collect over 100 LPs.  For the next 10 years, every time I dropped by, she was playing a LP.  Now the system mostly just sits.  She hasn’t played a LP in weeks.  She mainly streams her music.  Occasionally she plays it through her system, but more often she plays it through a pair of JBL powered Bluetooth speakers.  Not great fidelity, but she likes that she can easily move it from room to room or even outside.  All of her friends stream & have Bluetooth speakers.

The people that I have helped with vintage or even new full range speakers over the past couple of years have all been over 55.  

[genek]

It's probably unrealistic to expect very many people to become enthusiasts about products designed and manufactured before they were even born. I know that I do not have an Edison cylinder player or a giant console-sized vacuum tube AM radio around here.

[bjmsam]

It seems realistic to expect people to become enthusiasts about products that best achieve the primary objective(s).  Relatively few today are enthusiastic about cylinder players or tube radios because every alternative performs better and is more convenient. During the classic speaker era, performance was valued most, and those products still deliver, but are not particularly convenient. During whatever era this is, it seems convenience is valued most, often at the expense of performance.  LPs are a curious exception from the perspectives of both performance (IMHO) and convenience (adding that distortion electronically is easier).

[scottie munoz]

36 minutes ago, bjmsam said:

It seems realistic to expect people to become enthusiasts about products that best achieve the primary objective(s).  Relatively few today are enthusiastic about cylinder players or tube radios because every alternative performs better and is more convenient. During the classic speaker era, performance was valued most. During whatever era this is, it seems convenience is valued most.  LPs are a curious exception (from both perspectives, IMO).

Very good points both ways.  I am only speak from my experience with gear and "young'ns".  I'm not unrealistic, I often have to go through an entire an comparison of what he's listening to through BT ( admittedly it's getting better, but wired is easily more listenable.) I've done it, just to be a pain in the...  But also to reaffirm with him what his ears are hearing, with nothing to compare, human nature and for lack if better word, laziness wins out.

I do feel a wane in the vintage market I'm so closely tied to.  I'm optimistic that new tech, ( atmos audio, the new klh 5, lossless streaming), came at the very right time for all those  *bro's" to have an easy answer for "what do I do with those wooden speakers I bought for a grand?"

 

Scottie

Edited May 23, 2022 by scottie munoz
Grammar

[genek]

Entertainment of all types now have to compete with each other for users' attention. It's not unusual for people to "listen to music" on whatever player they have at the same time they're working, doing homework or hobbies, texting, emailing, browsing the web, etc. My guess is that it's pretty rare for people under the age of 30-35 to just clear the decks, sit back, close their eyes and devote themselves solely to the music. It also doesn't help that people who have actually heard a live, unamplified musical performance are becoming an ever shrinking percentage of the population.

[AR surround]

16 hours ago, bjmsam said:

During whatever era this is, it seems convenience is valued most, often at the expense of performance. 

And let's face it folks, most of us on this site are enamored with tinkering with stuff...especially if we can improve performance.   When things get too convenient, we get bored.

[scottie munoz]

On 5/24/2022 at 10:28 AM, AR surround said:

And let's face it folks, most of us on this site are enamored with tinkering with stuff...especially if we can improve performance.   When things get too convenient, we get bored.

What makes a guy like you and I and the rest of csp, as you describe?  Compared to...for example- most of my customers.  A good amount are  speakerheads might have a job over their heads they they hire me to do, but increasingly, especially in the last 2-3 years, it's  theAverage Joe's or Jane. 

The reason I'm able to sell them and  make the kind of money I make is because I'm selling them something they're accustomed to going to a store ( increasingly Amazon, gotta get out of the habit of saying "store", strange) for new.  
 

 Scottie Napier Muñoz

Edited May 28, 2023 by scottie munoz
Clarity

[Aadams]

On 5/23/2022 at 8:11 PM, genek said:

It also doesn't help that people who have actually heard a live, unamplified musical performance are becoming an ever shrinking percentage of the population.

Compounded by the comparative scarcity of live space recordings that convey the "you are there" sensation, which can only be delivered by speakers. 

Studio recorded music can be presented well by headphones. Music performance videos eliminate the need for a good sound stage as long as the video presentation corresponds to the music source.  A sound bar and a sub woofer will work well for most listeners.   Only a few of us now feel the need for full range high quality speakers and the attendant paraphernalia.