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What is it about people that like the sound of vintage speakers


Guest OldRelayer

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Guest OldRelayer

Intellectually, I am suppose to like a modern tower or even a sub and sat system. But I don't, I have owned them and I just don't like them. My reference for all other speakers is a pair of AR-5s I had in the mid 70's. I have just never have owned a pair of speakers that I like as much and not even sure I have heard ones I like as well. I am curious to know what others think. Is it possible I just don't know good sound when I hear it and just have a tainted reference. I understand for many here that the vintage speaker is a past time and it is like owning a 57 Chevy, you know it isn't as good as a modern car, it had a horrid suspension, but I own 3 of them and still love them.

Thoughts.

Barry

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We should all be blindfolded when buying speakers. And the salesperson should shut-up.

Well, those 2 requests are like wishes from a genie in a bottle so we become prejudiced.

The AR3 & AR3a were supposed to have been in blindfold tests where the listeners could not (or barely) tell when the live performance ended and and the electronics began. If that's true then who cares how old the speakers are?

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Guest daveshel

I'm an IT guy, and I have a coworker who is fond of saying how Microsoft is a marketing company, not a software company.

It's the same with speakers. AR was a speaker company, most of today's speakers are made by marketing companies.

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>I understand for many here that the vintage speaker is a past time and it is like owning a 57 Chevy, you know it isn't as good as a modern car, it had a horrid suspension, but I own 3 of them and still love them.<

I think the analogy for the AR of old might be closer to a '75 Volvo (strut introduction). The suspension wasn't horrible, the engine wasn't awful, the brakes were awsome, it had ac and a sunroof, leather if you wanted it, a spacious trunk, fuel-efficient engine, quiet, well-designed seating for proper support on long trips, large passenger compartment with lots of headroom, crumpled around you in a wreck to save your neck, and was durable. It was also boxy-looking with a cattle-scoop grill made of plastic - the stock sound stunk - the fiberboard sound-deadening panels over your knees tended to droop with age and the "rubber" exhaust pipe supports tended to break with time and leave your muffler on the road behind you. The body fit was exceptional, the headlights good, the ergonomics very nice, and it had a big horn button even if the horn was whimpy! In the days of 70,000 miles and onto-the-scrap-heap vehicles, Volvos routinely ran a multiple of that and lasted over 15 years on average.

The design could have been refined to take-care of some problems, but all-in-all it was a pretty-good car even by today's standards. Okay, so we can get more power out of the same displacement and new materials have helped exhaust sytems stop rusting-out and radios and horns have gotten better, but the performance *goals* were about right for '75 and now. Some things just don't change much.

In my analogy, AR built the "Volvo" of speaker systems. The design goals were right, the design was engineered well, and execution was good.

In much the same way as a '75 Volvo is still a pretty-good car, older AR speakers are still pretty-good speakers. Sure, they could stand a face-lift and maybe a better "x" than they had, and sure there were one or two things they should have done differently (had anyone known, they would have done them differently), and sure today's technology would have allowed for even better vanquishing of some problems.

Being brutally honest with myself, I know that a '75 Volvo isn't the car a 2006 Lexus is, but I find myself most of the way there at far, far lower cost. It's all about that bang-per-buck thing, if I can get 80% of the way there for 10% of the price; I'm all over it.

As big a fan as I am of my AR-9s, I'm not sure they addressed all the "issues" in a fashion as correctly balanced as did the AR-3a.

That ARs can still be enjoyed so many years later is testament to the skills and genius of the pioneers who decided what the design goals should be; identified and correctly prioritized obsticals; then sought and largely found solutions emphasizing that which in-the-end was more important.

I don't think our liking vintage speakers speaks as much to character-issues with us listeners as it does how good those old speakers really were/are.

Today, if I could get a '75 Volvo working as new for 10% of the price of Lexus LS-430, or even a 20% of a GS, there still is no contest.

Bret

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Guest OldRelayer

Wow Bret how eloquent you are. I may feel as you do, if I ever owned a 75 Volvo. I did own a 71 Plymouth Duster that had 235,000 miles on it when I drove it to the junk yard and got $75 for it. It still ran fine, although got an automatic oil change and I couldn't keep the body from rotting away and it finally was just unsafe to drive. Today a car that has 200k on it is no big deal but then it was a marvel, considering that the only things ever replaced were dependable items, it had the original engine un-touched and a small amount of suspension work. The cost per mile to drive that car was incredibly low, it wasn't the family car, I used it exclusively to commute to work.

I really want a pair of 5's, but they are awfully hard to find that are not a train wreck. So it is more likely that I will get a pair of 3a's, which are easier to obtain in working condition. Life is a trade off. The 3a's look better but I really like the snap in the upper bass that the 5's alone seem to have. The 3a's on the other hand get the wife approval nod, they really are a nice looking speaker.

I understand the Marketing verses Speaker company analogy. I have read the hype and tried hard to like the new speakers, lets face it, it would be a whole lot easier going to Circuit city, walking to Aisle 6 and saying, I like those. But they all sound like crap to me.

I have to wonder if the speaker designers have ever heard real acoustic instruments.

Thank you all for your great comments, keep them coming, I find this very interesting.

Thanks

Barry

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Guest David in MA

>I am curious to know what

>others think. Is it possible I just don't know good sound

>when I hear it and just have a tainted reference.

I was having this conversation with a friend...how do we know that the sound we hear is the same? Our ears are a pair of acoustic receiver which has it's own frequency response. While we spends so much effort and money in order to obtain flat response out of our sound system, our ears distort the sound by virtue of the fact that it response differently to different frequency components.

So then how do we measure which speakers sound better to our ears? My friend believes that you need to hear the speakers without knowing the price and I agree with him. Because the sound difference in upperend speakers are so subtle, just having the knowledge of the price alters our judgement.

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Guest OldRelayer

Actually David, you may make the strongest case for a system being neutral and speakers being flat. When we hear music live we color it in our own particular way, I suspect that like snow flakes, no two people actually hear the same. I play guitar, well not as much as I use to but I still know what a guitar should sound like, or more precisely, what a guitar sounds like to me. So when I listen to a recording that is what I want it to sound like. I have heard pianos sound like harps and like toys but that same recording can sound terrific, so what is real? Well, something that sounds like what I think a real piano sounds like, is what makes sense to me. If all of this is true, then that same recording with that same stereo should sound like a piano to who ever is listening. Some one may have hearing losses in certain parts of the audio spectrum that make their experience less entertaining than yours, but just the same it should be what they hear when they hear it live. This isn't something I have a long time researching or have a vested interest in supporting, just something that I thought when I read your post.

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