AR3a or AR-94s (or AR9LSi)?

[Guest Ducati]

Hello,

I am a new member of the forum, and the interesting information has prompted me to clean the pots (again) on my old pair of AR3a, that I have owned for about 20 years. All is well, they sound great with my simple system, a JVC RX715, a Hafler MOSFET amp, all in my office.

I have been an "AR guy" since high school, my first pair being AR4x, that I still own.

Over the last couple of years, I have picked up two more pair of AR speakers, AR-94s, and AR9LSi. Both need new surrounds, but are otherwise in good condition. I am wondering if I should repair one or both pair, with the intent of possibly replacing the old AR3a's. Will I find either pair of speakers to be substantially better than the old 3a's?

I am not an audiophile- I do like to listen to louder, bass laden stuff, from Steely Dan to Rush. Will I be happy with either newer pair of speakers, or should I just leave well enough alone?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Ed

[frankmarsi]

Talk to me! There's others on this site, but I'm well versed and could possibly be of some interest to ya!

FM

[dynaco_dan]

>Hello,

>I am a new member of the forum, and the interesting

>information has prompted me to clean the pots (again) on my

>old pair of AR3a, that I have owned for about 20 years. All is

>well, they sound great with my simple system, a JVC RX715, a

>Hafler MOSFET amp, all in my office.

>I have been an "AR guy" since high school, my first pair being

>AR4x, that I still own.

>Over the last couple of years, I have picked up two more pair

>of AR speakers, AR-94s, and AR9LSi. Both need new surrounds,

>but are otherwise in good condition. I am wondering if I

>should repair one or both pair, with the intent of possibly

>replacing the old AR3a's. Will I find either pair of speakers

>to be substantially better than the old 3a's?

>I am not an audiophile- I do like to listen to louder, bass

>laden stuff, from Steely Dan to Rush. Will I be happy with

>either newer pair of speakers, or should I just leave well

>enough alone?

>Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

>

>Ed

Hi there;

How did you accomplish cleaning your pots?

Why are you thinking about cleaning them again?

AR-4X's and AR-3A's are a great classic speakers, if you own them.

AR-4X's are what I have always considered, the best bang for the buck of all the AR classic speaker systems.

If you don't own a pair, there is still some well cared for ones that are available, once in a while, on ebay, for example.

Mind you, the better cared for ones go for a pretty dollar to.

Use caution when you boost the bass on any speaker system.

Steely Dan. MMMMMMMM Gaucho

By all means re-foam the other speakers, enjoy them by rotating speaker systems.

I can't comment to whether they are better or worse sounding that the 3A's.

I would guess they sound very similar, not exactly the same though.

Better ears will comment as they pick up your questions.

Good luck.

[Guest Ducati]

I am trying to determine ultimately which pair to keep, and probably sell the remainders. I have a serious space problem in the office and garage, and really need some room. I am certain that which ever models that I sell, I will later regret!

I think that I am being overwhelmed by the "big speaker syndrome" with the AR9LSI's. You know, they are that heavy, they must be good!

I am most impressed by the quality of the AR3a's. They are the oldest, by far, and yet the surrounds are in great shape. As I have seen mentioned here on the forum, they seem to have been coated by sore sort of adhesive, like a rubber cement. I wonder if that is advisable to do on the new surrounds that I replace on the others?

Ed

[Guest Ducati]

I just completed cleaning the pots, for the second time in 10 years, or so. Both times, they were corroded with an ugly, blue accumulation. These old pots easily come apart, by removing the body clip. To clean the contacts, I have found that 2000 grit sandpaper carefully used does a great job. Years ago, I think that I probably lubricated the internals with WD40, or something similar. This time, I used dielectric grease, which should stay for a bit longer.

The sealing "goo" around the woofer was still plyable after these many years, so I just resealed the box using it. The speakers sound as good as ever!

I have used "AJA", by Steely Dan, as my "reference" music for about 25 years! I have compared many systems by playing it, from CD to cassette, to LP, and yes, to 8-track!

Ed

[dynaco_dan]

>I just completed cleaning the pots, for the second time in 10

>years, or so. Both times, they were corroded with an ugly,

>blue accumulation. These old pots easily come apart, by

>removing the body clip. To clean the contacts, I have found

>that 2000 grit sandpaper carefully used does a great job.

>Years ago, I think that I probably lubricated the internals

>with WD40, or something similar. This time, I used dielectric

>grease, which should stay for a bit longer.

>The sealing "goo" around the woofer was still plyable after

>these many years, so I just resealed the box using it. The

>speakers sound as good as ever!

>I have used "AJA", by Steely Dan, as my "reference" music for

>about 25 years! I have compared many systems by playing it,

>from CD to cassette, to LP, and yes, to 8-track!

>Ed

Thanks for your feedback, Ed.

Now you have told me something I haven't read about before.

"That ugly blue accumulation", does anyone know what it is and why not everyone on this site has this same ongoing problem?

This will be interesting as it certainly needs a more permanent cleaner.

[Guest Ducati]

The blue stuff looks like battery terminal corrosion on a car, but with a blue tint! I assume that it is some sort of chemical-metallic reaction between the wiper and contact materials. My first cleaning, many years ago, was probebly done in haste, and probably not too well. This time, I would bet that the corrosion will have a difficult time coming back.

Ed

[Guest Bret]

Ed,

In my opinion, based on time spent in front of an inferior set of 9LS speakers (before the "i" fixed a problem), there simply is no contest.

Yes, the AR9LSi is a better speaker than the 3a by any objective measure, not just bigger and more imposing! [and who doesn't like imposing; other than wives, I mean]

I've been pretty loud about this even though it was someone else's discovery - those old electrolytic caps in the 9LSi are almost certain to ***need*** to be replaced. (like a flat tire ***needs*** to be changed for a car to drive correctly)

You cannot use inexpensive NPEs to do this if you want the speakers to sound good. You can't decide, on the basis of sound, what to keep until you hear them and you can't hear the LSi's if you don't restore them. AR used expensive NPE capacitors and searching for their equal today is a waste of time. There aren't any.

IF the caps are replaced and the drivers are repaired in the 9LSi, I don't know how a reasonable person could conclude that they want to keep the 3a's and get rid of the 9LSi's on the basis of sound.

I do understand that it may be easier to place the 3a's in a good spot and you might want to keep them on that basis alone. But if you have room for the 9LSi's they will go at least an octave deeper, have more uniform and better tweet, will fix that 1.5" midrange's having to reach down for the crossover point, have better power-handling for the days when "Hemispheres" just can't be too loud and you have the need to feel the percussion in "The Royal Scam," and they image better (in the sweet spot).

You'd better have enough amp for them, though. If you've got a 60w receiver, forget the 9LSi's.

My bet is that if you fix the 9LSi's you'll end-up keeping both them and the 3a's, if you only resurround the 9LSi's, you'll keep the 3a's. That crossover *has* to work right.

I suspect that the concensus on the three pair you have puts the 94s at the bottom of the keep-list.

And then, as a "collector" how could you not want to keep the rarer of the two systems in contention?

Bret

[Guest Ducati]

Bret,

Thank you for your thoughts. I am especially glad to hear your opinion of the 94's. I guess that I was sort of thinking that, while the 9LSi are probably the best units, I could maybe get some of the modern improvements with the 94's. That dosen't sound like the case.

I am a collector of way too much stuff, and have reached a point in my life that I want to reduce the inventory a bit. I'm doing the same thing with a few motorcycles that I have, and making choices is tough when you have accumulated stuff for 20+ years. I think that the fear is that if you mistake, you might not be able to find, or afford to correct it later!

I'm currently driving the 3a's with a Hafler MOSFET unit, thats good for 115 wpc. I've been very happy with this unit, and might scour eBay for one of the Hafler 500's later.

Thanks again, for your help.

Ed

[Guest Ducati]

Just a note of Follow Up...

I have now serviced the AR9LSi's, and the AR-94's. I have determined by listening (a lot) that I still like the old AR-3a's the best. The AR-94's were just out of their league, here. The '9LSi's are probably too large for my office, a relatively small room 18'x24'. Driving all of them with a Hafler MOSFET amp, 100W/ch, the 9LSi's began sounding pretty good at large volume, but were overpowering my room. At low, low volume, there was (in my opinion) no comparison.

I guess the fling is over, I'm back to my old speakers. I guess I've had them longer than my wife! So. I'm over to the For Sale Forum with my experiments!

Thanks for the assistance and opinions.

Ed

[Guest Bret]

>At low, low volume, there was (in my opinion) no comparison.<

I, for one, really appreciate your coming back and giving us the benefit of your experience. You taught me to be less-certain of myself. I just knew that feeling the percussion in the Steely Dan was going to sell you on the LSi's.

Bret

[Guest Sweden]

>Ed,

>

>In my opinion, based on time spent in front of an inferior set

>of 9LS speakers (before the "i" fixed a problem), there simply

>is no contest.

>

>Yes, the AR9LSi is a better speaker than the 3a by any

>objective measure, not just bigger and more imposing! [and who

>doesn't like imposing; other than wives, I mean]

>

>I've been pretty loud about this even though it was someone

>else's discovery - those old electrolytic caps in the 9LSi are

>almost certain to ***need*** to be replaced. (like a flat tire

>***needs*** to be changed for a car to drive correctly)

>

>You cannot use inexpensive NPEs to do this if you want the

>speakers to sound good. You can't decide, on the basis of

>sound, what to keep until you hear them and you can't hear the

>LSi's if you don't restore them. AR used expensive NPE

>capacitors and searching for their equal today is a waste of

>time. There aren't any.

>

>IF the caps are replaced and the drivers are repaired in the

>9LSi, I don't know how a reasonable person could conclude that

>they want to keep the 3a's and get rid of the 9LSi's on the

>basis of sound.

>

>I do understand that it may be easier to place the 3a's in a

>good spot and you might want to keep them on that basis alone.

> But if you have room for the 9LSi's they will go at least an

>octave deeper, have more uniform and better tweet, will fix

>that 1.5" midrange's having to reach down for the crossover

>point, have better power-handling for the days when

>"Hemispheres" just can't be too loud and you have the need to

>feel the percussion in "The Royal Scam," and they image better

>(in the sweet spot).

>

>You'd better have enough amp for them, though. If you've got

>a 60w receiver, forget the 9LSi's.

>

>My bet is that if you fix the 9LSi's you'll end-up keeping

>both them and the 3a's, if you only resurround the 9LSi's,

>you'll keep the 3a's. That crossover *has* to work right.

>

>I suspect that the concensus on the three pair you have puts

>the 94s at the bottom of the keep-list.

>

>And then, as a "collector" how could you not want to keep the

>rarer of the two systems in contention?

>

>Bret

Hi Bret,

I have a pair of 9LSi and I wonder about what you say regarding changing the caps. Does that concern converting 9LS to 9LSi only or does it also concerning upgrading 9LSi?

If the second, what could expect as a change?

How difficult is it to replace caps? (I don't like the idea to bring the speakers with me to a repair-shop and not to remove the filter as well, the best (?) would be to have someone fixing it at my home)

Which caps did you use and how many did you change?

My musical experience of the speakers so far is:

- very deep bass, especially when watching DVD!

- the midrange is not otimal

- the treble is fine (crisp and clear)

So basically, any improvement would probably be noticed in the midrange frequence but I don't know if this (possible) "change" is good enough to start messing around with the speakers.

Rgsd

Rickard

[Guest Bret]

>Which caps did you use and how many did you change?<

I have never changed the caps in a 9LS or LSi. I don't think which caps you choose is as important as getting new ones onto the crossover because the old ones have degraded. The safest thing to do is to replace what is in there with the same type. All of them.

The speakers I have done this to have improved by coming back into "balance." In one case I thought the speakers sounded pretty good, but after changing the capacitors in one of them it was obvious that the other was not playing correctly.

In other of the "vertical" speakers this has meant that one driver will get quiet and another (the correct one) will become louder. The overall effect is that they are clearer.

Many capacitors from this era have been found to be bad when tested.

Bret

[Guest Sweden]

OK, I misunderstod you Bret. Sorry for that.

I think that the sound is very good on my LSi and I guess that with a better room, it would be even better, so I will not try to replace anything until it's broken.

I can sincerely say that I'm glad I bought them. The only problem I have is that my DENON PMA2000R isn't able to handle my 91's and 9LSi's at the same time so I have to find a solution for that.