Tweeter 3/4 inch question, hindsight, speculation

[Aadams]

Assume both of the tweeters pictured below were available in 1970.

Question: Which tweeter would Roy Allison choose to best meet the performance goals for his domed mid designs? Specifically  LST, 3a, AR5?

 

[Giorgio AR]

Given the subsequent Allison speakers, one can imagine that the paper dome was preferred by this brilliant designer!
According to the AR "philosophy" each speakers built were the best of the time: AR1, then AR3, then AR3a then AR10TT, the same goes for tweeters of every era.
Personally I appreciate both types of tweeters, similar but with different edges and certainly greater emission volume in soft dome tweeters.

[ar_pro]

4 hours ago, Giorgio AR said:

Given the subsequent Allison speakers, one can imagine that the paper dome was preferred by this brilliant designer!
According to the AR "philosophy" each speakers built were the best of the time: AR1, then AR3, then AR3a then AR10TT, the same goes for tweeters of every era.
Personally I appreciate both types of tweeters, similar but with different edges and certainly greater emission volume in soft dome tweeters.

Yes, I completely agree with all of this, especially regarding the philosophy of AR tweeter development.

Didn't Allison use a paper tweeter with an extended height?

[giovanni56]

Il 13/8/2021 alle 16:38, Aadams ha scritto:

Supponiamo che entrambi i tweeter nella foto sotto disponibili nel 1970.

Domanda: quale tweeter sceglierebbe Roy Allison per poter ottenere al meglio gli obiettivi prestazionali dei suoi design mid a cupola? Nello specifico LST, 3a, AR5?

 

Mr. Allison designed his tweeters and midranges with the goal of the greatest possible off-axis dispersion, and the domes were made of stiff paper. I think he would not choose either Ar tweeter, but would reuse his own. For a new design with modern drivers, perhaps he would consider using the Dynaudio D21AF, Vifa DT19 or Scanspeak D2010 as tweeters and the Dynaudio D52AF or D54AF, or Scanspeak D3806 as midrange.

[Aadams]

This is what AR said about the AR11 with its new tweeter and "improved" woofer but without stating in what ways the AR11 was better than the previous standard of sound.

“The AR-11 is the most accurate speaker system ever made by Acoustic Research. Its performance, drivers, and crossover are identical to those of the AR-10π, except that the Ar-11 does not incorporate a Woofer Environmental Control and the associated crossover components.”   

Meanwhile Allison had created this evolutionary product which looks much like a classic AR dome tweeter

Villchur was very pleased with Allison’s new products. In a speech to the Acoustical Society of America in June 1997, he said: “No one has imitated the Allison tweeter, a sort of pulsating version of the dome tweeter…. I consider it a significant improvement over my original dome in addressing the same problems I did.”  (from "The Villchur Blog")

So I agree, and speculate Mr Allison would have used the orange dot tweeter, given the choice of the two forms of AR tweeter in the original post.   The cloth tweeters mark the split between AR and the Allison/Villchur philosophy of sound reproduction.

[giovanni56]

1 hour ago, Aadams said:

Questo è ciò che AR ha detto dell'AR11 con il suo nuovo tweeter e il woofer "migliorato", ma senza affermare in che modo l'AR11 fosse migliore del precedente standard di suono.

 

“ L'AR-11 è il sistema di altoparlanti più accurato mai realizzato da Acoustic Research. Le sue prestazioni, driver e crossover sono identici a quelli dell'AR-10π, tranne per il fatto che l'Ar-11 non incorpora un Woofer Environmental Control e i componenti crossover associati. "   

 

 

Nel frattempo Allison aveva creato questo prodotto evolutivo che assomiglia molto a un classico tweeter a cupola AR

 

 

Villchur era molto soddisfatto dei nuovi prodotti Allison. In un discorso alla Acoustical Society of America nel giugno 1997, disse: “Nessuno ha imitato il tweeter Allison, una sorta di versione pulsante del tweeter a cupola…. Lo considero un miglioramento significativo rispetto alla mia cupola originale nell'affrontare gli stessi problemi che ho affrontato". (da "Il blog di Villchur")

 

Quindi sono d'accordo e immagino che il signor Allison avrebbe usato il tweeter con punto arancione, data la scelta delle due forme di tweeter AR nel post originale. I tweeter in tessuto segnano la divisione tra AR e la filosofia di riproduzione del suono Allison/Villchur.

 

There are audio experts who claim treated paper as one of the best materials for the construction of speakers (woofers, midrange and tweeters); the problem is the cost of production of good paper membranes, for example on woofers is cheaper and more repeatable, build a metal cone than a cone in treated paper.

[rl1856]

The 10p/11 dome tweeter allowed for the speaker to have flat on axis FR.  The 3/3a/2a/2ax/5 tweeter design was noticeably stepped down in output compared to the woofer and midrange when operated at the recommended pot level.  One had to turn the pot to max to bring the tweeter up about 3db or so in output, at the expense longevity.    The 10p/11 dome tweeter was a different design, and is not backward compatible with earlier speakers unless level compensation is included.

One can certainly say that each successive AR model range represented and overall improvement is what was possible.  But questions remain- improvement in what areas ?  Were the ferofluid, flat response domes better sounding than the earlier stepped down FR design ?   Some say no.   Which would RA and EV use if given the choice ?   Would they be responding to market conditions, or their own preferences ?  By the early 70's the market had changed, and their personal preferences may not have matched market preferences as well as they did 5-10yrs earlier.

[Giorgio AR]

Technically I am a neophyte, but as a listener, with the AR3a and their dome paper tweeter I hear the music with all the nuances and harmonics in a fluid and perfect way, I do not listen to the tweeter as happens in these modern components: the AR tweeter performs the its task without "emerging", but accompanying the rest of the range, the same in the following models, where it intervenes a little more evident.
I am probably not suitable for today's market and products or those of a few years ago, where a more evident and intrusive tweeter has established itself: it must not be the protagonist, but participant and finisher of the sound ... Great, great AR and Men who developed the AR Sound.
Of course my compliments also go to the splendid and unsurpassed Woofer and to the factotum, essential, indispensable Midrange.