AR-3a : walnut version?

[Freek]

Hello, I’m restoring the cabinets of a pair AR-3a.

The cabinets were painted black by the previous owner.

I stripped of (as much of possible) the black paint.

To be 100% sure, are these the walnut version? 

I attached some photo’s.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Freek

 

[genek]

Is the grain that straight on all the cabinet faces?

Moisten the surface and post a pic of how that looks. It's possible that you have mahogany.

[lance G]

Nice condition cabinets. Did you use paint stripper ? Perhaps you may need to ? To remove as much of the paint as possible from the grain of the wood ?

Grain looks a little too straight and regular for walnut ?

Sorry, lots of ???? !

[Freek]

3 minutes ago, lance G said:

Nice condition cabinets. Did you use paint stripper ? Perhaps you may need to ? To remove as much of the paint as possible from the grain of the wood ?

Yes I used paint stripper. But I have bought new (better) paint stripper to do the second cabinet and if the result is better to redo the first one also. I will strip it this weekend and then I will post some new pics.

[Freek]

2 hours ago, genek said:

Is the grain that straight on all the cabinet faces?

Moisten the surface and post a pic of how that looks. It's possible that you have mahogany.

Yes it is that straight on al the cabinet faces, I will do the other cabinet this weekend and I will then post some new pics with moistened surfaces. 

[JeffS]

I agree with genek, you may very well have a 3a pair in mahogany, which is a very rare and great find! Once verified, I'm sure you'll be getting some tips on finishing.

Keepers for sure.

[Lucky Pierre]

I believe those are mahogany.  They would have been lacquered from the factory, not oiled.

 

I have a pair of 3s in lacquered mahogany.  I was going to strip and re-lacquer, but after trying my hand a lacquering a different pair of speakers I gave up on that idea!

Edited July 29, 2021 by Lucky Pierre
added commentary

[Lucky Pierre]

[tysontom]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:27 AM, genek said:

Is the grain that straight on all the cabinet faces?

Moisten the surface and post a pic of how that looks. It's possible that you have mahogany.

The grain does resemble mahogany, but AR-3as in lacquered mahagony are rare, even though the finish was available from 1967 until 1973 (move to Norwood).  Nearly all AR-3as were done in oiled walnut, lacquered walnut, cherry, oiled teak or unfinished birch.  There were many thousands of AR-3s and AR-2as done in mahogany, but few AR-3as.  It's likely oiled-walnut veneer. 

AR-3 in lacquered mahogany.

All of the AR "black" cabinets, such as the AR-6s and AR-LSTs used in The Royal Danish Opera House, were black-lacquer finish over walnut.  I wonder if anyone here has a pair of mahogany AR-3as or even pictures of the 3a in mahogany.   —Tom

[tysontom]

On 7/12/2021 at 2:11 AM, Freek said:

Hello, I’m restoring the cabinets of a pair AR-3a.

The cabinets were painted black by the previous owner.

I stripped of (as much of possible) the black paint.

To be 100% sure, are these the walnut version? 

I attached some photo’s.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Freek

 

Do you have some other images of the speakers, such as from the front and possibly a 3/4 view?  The molding should be a clue, too.  If you take a damp cloth and whipe down part of the sanded surface, what color do you get?  Is it reddish or brown in tint?  The walnut veneer used for these speakers was sometimes wavy and figured and sometimes very straight, depending on whether it was half-round slicing, quarter sliced, etc.  —Tom Tyson

[Giorgio AR]

Tom, the AR3a version of Freek, is completely veneered, does not have the (visible) solid wood frame as usual in US cabinets.
From the photos, the grain is longitudinal and uniform (already the effect of the paint remover is good), very particular, perhaps it deserves a single color stain and subsequent well-done oiling and then see the effect achieved.

Other images of the speakers would help a lot, including the back, label if present, and individual speakers.
Freek you have to be patient, show us your AR3a, eventually we will discover the veneer wood, which in my opinion is very beautiful.

[Freek]

Dear all, right now I am holiday in France. After my return, I will post some more pictures. Thanks in advance for the feedback you have already given! With kind regards, Freek

[tysontom]

4 hours ago, Giorgio AR said:

Tom, the AR3a version of Freek, is completely veneered, does not have the (visible) solid wood frame as usual in US cabinets.
From the photos, the grain is longitudinal and uniform (already the effect of the paint remover is good), very particular, perhaps it deserves a single color stain and subsequent well-done oiling and then see the effect achieved.

Other images of the speakers would help a lot, including the back, label if present, and individual speakers.
Freek you have to be patient, show us your AR3a, eventually we will discover the veneer wood, which in my opinion is very beautiful.

That is an excellent point!  There were different moldings used for the AR-3, one thicker (deeper) than the other but always a molding: but with the AR-3a, the molding was standardized in size (depth) but made from different types of solid-stock wood, be it mahogany, walnut, birch (for unfinished cabinets), teak or cherry (or Korina in very eary cabinets).  This does not show that at all, you are right.  The European cabinets (and moldings) were different, of course, and this is another reason it would be great to see other images, especially of the front and back of the cabinet.

[RoyC]

Coincidentally, I recently completed work for a local repair shop customer who owns two pairs of late AR-3a (serial numbers over 90,000) with lacquered mahogany cabinets, as printed on the rear tags. Manufacture dates, as indicated by the drivers, are early 1974.

I have also seen a number of 3a cabinets with early serial numbers (under 15,000) with continuous veneer to the edge of the cabinet. These were all original, with nothing else out of the ordinary. The edges were solid, and no indication of being converted AR-3's.

Yesterday, I received an interesting pair of original AR-3's, with oiled AR-3a style cabinets, 3a style woofers, and 3a style mids. The completely original crossover is the last iteration of the 3, which includes the additional mid circuit inductor and capacitor. The early style 3a woofers have multiple date stamps on them, with the most legible stamp being March 1973. These are obviously very late AR-3's. Interestingly, the serial numbers are hand-written in as just over 50,000, which seems early for this configuration.

Roy

PS Hey Tom, I noticed this forum has provided us with the ranks of "rookie". That should inspire confidence in our posts. At least Giorgio is an "apprentice". Who comes up with this nonsense.

[genek]

Freek appears to be posting from Belgium, so even if the cabinets in question are of a wood whose name we know, the grain is likely to look different from what we would expect to see on a US AR. 

The side face pictured appears to have four slipmatched bands of veneer covering it, which means the veneer came from relatively young trees that would tend to produce straighter grained veneer (my late 60s 3a's have only two bands on their side faces, the veneer is more figured and is bookmatched). 

So we are most likely looking at Euro style cabinets produced fairly late in the game for 3a's.

PS: the "ranking" is something that showed up in a recent forum SW update, and it appears to be based on member activity since the feature was added. 

[Freek]

I found some other pics in my library. 

[Freek]

As far as I can see the paper on the back mentions at the bottom ‘Cambridge’, that is in the UK. So I suppose they were produced there for the EU market?

[genek]

This Cambridge is a suburb of Boston in Massachusetts.

Cambridge ARs would not be later models. OTOH, they appear to have particle board backs rather than plywood. Curiouser and curiouser.

[Giorgio AR]

Usually if the AR speakers have labels on the back, these allow you to distinguish the assembly and build status of the cabinets:
AR3a USA, on label is indicated: Serial no. 3A xxxxx
AR3a England, on label is indicated: Serial no.E (EA) 3A xxxxx
AR3a Holland, on label is indicated: Serial no. H3A xxxxx

In England, cabinets was built in Ingham ( Norfolk ), if I remember correctly.

Label AR3a USA made

Label AR3a Holland made

 

[Giorgio AR]

9 hours ago, Freek said:

found some other pics in my library

Well, even your AR3a are European and assembled in Holland for comparison look at the photos contained in this my recent thread in which you see my early pair of AR3a, Holland made, another European pair of a friend of mine and the corresponding all-made model in the USA. :

The three pairs you see in this thread are all covered in walnut.

[tysontom]

On 7/29/2021 at 2:28 PM, RoyC said:

Coincidentally, I recently completed work for a local repair shop customer who owns two pairs of late AR-3a (serial numbers over 90,000) with lacquered mahogany cabinets, as printed on the rear tags. Manufacture dates, as indicated by the drivers, are early 1974.

I have also seen a number of 3a cabinets with early serial numbers (under 15,000) with continuous veneer to the edge of the cabinet. These were all original, with nothing else out of the ordinary. The edges were solid, and no indication of being converted AR-3's.

Yesterday, I received an interesting pair of original AR-3's, with oiled AR-3a style cabinets, 3a style woofers, and 3a style mids. The completely original crossover is the last iteration of the 3, which includes the additional mid circuit inductor and capacitor. The early style 3a woofers have multiple date stamps on them, with the most legible stamp being March 1973. These are obviously very late AR-3's. Interestingly, the serial numbers are hand-written in as just over 50,000, which seems early for this configuration.

Roy

PS Hey Tom, I noticed this forum has provided us with the ranks of "rookie". That should inspire confidence in our posts. At least Giorgio is an "apprentice". Who comes up with this nonsense.

Roy, it feels reassuring to begin as a "newbie" again; I notice that you are a class higher as an "apprentice."  Congratulations on your ranking!

Your AR-3s are yet another interesting variation in the AR production scheme.  Production AR-3s went up to at least serial number C70228, but serial numbers may have been changed when the company moved to Norwood, perhaps in line with the hand-written serial numbers.  When AR moved from Cambridge to Norwood in 1973, some of the old-style parts went there, but soon production was changed quite a bit.  As you know, AR began to run out of original AR-3 2-inch midrange drivers in late 1973 or early 1974, so AR-3s were supplied with the modified 3a midrange and instructions for updating the crossover in order to "pad" down the output of the newer midrange to match the old unit in output.  Never a dull moment in the AR hobby!

By the way, do you have any pictures of those AR-3a cabinets in lacquered mahogany or lacquered walnut?  Those cabinets are not common.  I don't think I have any pictures of AR-3as (or AR-5s or AR-2axs) in those finishes, but they were available for several years.

Tom 

 

[Lucky Pierre]

Hi Tom,

Here are some pics of my 3s in lacquered mahogany.  As you can see, these have battle scars.  I considered restoring the cabs, but as I mentioned earlier, lacquering is not my forte.  I've decided I will just clean them really well, then color the scratches, then wax.  I figure the scars tell a long story.

I'll post pics again when they are cleaned up.  Just waiting on my new workshop to be done.

 

 

[JKent]

I’ve had excellent results with Minwax gloss lacquer in a rattle can. Dries in minutes. Recoat in 10-15 mins. Very forgiving.

On my KLH radios I either clean with lacquer thinner or sand., then spray 4-6 coats. After a couple of days a light buff with white ScotchBrite gives a softer finish.

[JeffS]

On 7/31/2021 at 5:45 PM, tysontom said:

By the way, do you have any pictures of those AR-3a cabinets in lacquered mahogany or lacquered walnut?  Those cabinets are not common.  I don't think I have any pictures of AR-3as (or AR-5s or AR-2axs) in those finishes, but they were available for several years.

Tom 

 

While I can't show a pair of mahogany 3a's (I wish I could!), I do have an AR-2ax in lacquered walnut.

I found the speaker along with an AR-2a in the same finish. My guess is that this is a mono to stereo pair, and the 2ax was ordered to match the 2a.

The original grill cloths had been replaced with black fabric. I've installed a 2nd gen 2ax grill for the time being.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RoyC]

On 7/31/2021 at 5:45 PM, tysontom said:

Roy, it feels reassuring to begin as a "newbie" again; I notice that you are a class higher as an "apprentice."  Congratulations on your ranking!

Your AR-3s are yet another interesting variation in the AR production scheme.  Production AR-3s went up to at least serial number C70228, but serial numbers may have been changed when the company moved to Norwood, perhaps in line with the hand-written serial numbers.  When AR moved from Cambridge to Norwood in 1973, some of the old-style parts went there, but soon production was changed quite a bit.  As you know, AR began to run out of original AR-3 2-inch midrange drivers in late 1973 or early 1974, so AR-3s were supplied with the modified 3a midrange and instructions for updating the crossover in order to "pad" down the output of the newer midrange to match the old unit in output.  Never a dull moment in the AR hobby!

By the way, do you have any pictures of those AR-3a cabinets in lacquered mahogany or lacquered walnut?  Those cabinets are not common.  I don't think I have any pictures of AR-3as (or AR-5s or AR-2axs) in those finishes, but they were available for several years.

Tom 

 

Hey "newbie" Tom 😁 Hmmm, don't know who I am "apprentice" to. I think all we need to do is frequently post gibberish, so we can become masters of...um... gibberish.

I did not take a photo of the lacquered mahogany cabinets. The owner will be bringing more of his old beasts in for repair this week, and I'll ask him to take a few.

Regarding those late AR-3's, they appear to be a factory rebuild done in the later 70's.  I found another woofer date stamp of June 1973, and the tweeters' suspension material is the later (typically decomposing) foam of the mid 70's 3/4" domes.

Roy