Chop Shop AR-3a Improved on ebay

[Guest richd]

In another post in this discussion forum an eBay offering of an AR 3a Improved cabinet was noted (Item number 5793055949). The drivers and even the grill were removed and sold separately. What I do not understand is why the seller decided to sell it in pieces. Do members of this group think that cutting up such a unusually speaker in good condition and selling the pieces really increased the total return for the seller?

If you really can make more money selling such a rare speaker in bits one is left to wonder what incentive one would have to sell a complete AR 9 for which shipping issues, not present with a bookshelf speaker, would likely reduce the finally price if it was offered intact. One is left to hope that the seller of that AR 3a Improved made a big mistake and these classic speakers, in good condition, are worth more intact than on pieces.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi David

You make a good point.

Often I see raw drivers, etc, for sale on eBay and I am sure they have less problem selling a driver shipped than the entire enclosure.

There is an abundance of hifi speakers left still, thank goodness, but as time goes along the better quality ones will gradually become less visible.

When I see an ad for drivers, because the cabinet was in too rough a shape to keep, there is something wrong because even an empty AR-3A enclosure can be refinished. It still has great value in my mind. Mind you there is maybe a particle board problem.

If most of the sellers are thinking like a few that mailed me speakers then I understand how they sell the parts only.

Just to mention a few examples of packages I received.

Ar-4X's tweeters have a sticky compound on their cones perimeter which will stick to bubblewrap.

I suggested facing the cones together with a 1/4" spacer and then bolting or zap strapping through the bolt holes.

I don't wish to embarass any readers by using their names so I won't.

A pair of AR-1 3/8" dome tweeters arrived very well packed but the domes were not protected in any way from any damage and when I wrote the seller he said well at least I received one undamaged.

I will be persuing compensation when I am feeling stronger.

This person has a record of hundreds of sales and told me nothing ever gets damaged that he ships.

The actual tweeter body would have probably survived being hit a cannon, the dome though, a slight touch of a finger may be enough to destroy it.

We readers are here for the enjoyment of hifi and I am sure the majority of us feel the same as you.

I've tried to adopt many pieces of hifi, Advent, KLH, AR and Dynaco from second hand stores, classified ads and swap meets. I did not want to see them in a place where they weren't appreciated. It's a pretty crowded hifi orphanage here to be sure.

We can only hope that when a first rate speaker such as an AR-9 goes up for sale that the buyer will bear the crating expense rather than just rob the drivers.

I see what AR-3A's cost to ship in the US, and exported and it is sad that often the shipping cots much more than the selling price.

All we can do is try to train sellers as to how to pack and ship drivers and the complete speaker and hope that the buyers can afford the bill.

If not, we will continue to see various brand speaker cabinets having for ex. Radio Shack woofers rather than OEM original woofers, even if refoamed.

From what I've seen on this site, Tom seems to have the biggest heart in preservation.

With luck there is more than just Tom.

Rattle, rattle, rattle,

Have a great night,

Vern

>In another post in this discussion forum an eBay offering of

>an AR 3a Improved cabinet was noted (Item number 5793055949).

>The drivers and even the grill were removed and sold

>separately. What I do not understand is why the seller decided

>to sell it in pieces. Do members of this group think that

>cutting up such a unusually speaker in good condition and

>selling the pieces really increased the total return for the

>seller?

>

>If you really can make more money selling such a rare speaker

>in bits one is left to wonder what incentive one would have to

>sell a complete AR 9 for which shipping issues, not present

>with a bookshelf speaker, would likely reduce the finally

>price if it was offered intact. One is left to hope that the

>seller of that AR 3a Improved made a big mistake and these

>classic speakers, in good condition, are worth more intact

>than on pieces.

[mluong303]

Ebay Item number: 5795641847. Another of great pair of classic AR-10Pi speakers is about to get Killed by the seller who feels he will get more money by cutting everything up rather than sell the whole speakers. Ebay Buyers are getting very Cheap and Smart in their own way! So to the seller less works and more money is the only motivation regardless of if he has to kill an Elephant just for two Tusks. If you happen to have some spare Cash, Please save Dumbos, will you. I am sure the Seller will be more than happy to sell the wholes speakers with a decent offer.

Incase if the wife start to make noise, just tell her would she rather see you restoring AR speakers in the basement or see you with a Blond and a Brunet sitting next to you with their hands in your back Pocket in the Casino? It is her choice and stop making you look like a Mouse even though you are trying to save Dumbos…

Futhermore, the ground insured shipping is expensive, heavy duty boxes cost extra money and extra well pack takes good among of efforts and cares to insure these heavy but very fragile speakers to be delivery safely by the abusive handling behavior of the person who is delivery them!

[RoyC]

Sadly, I have received a number of otherwise excellent speakers with smashed cabinet corners in Ebay transactions. Heavy cabinet shipping costs, AR prices and risk of damage can make for difficult and expensive transactions. I guess this provides some incentive for parting them out.

Additionally many of the sellers are aware that, unlike many other brands, there is a strong demand for old AR parts.

[Kencat]

I 've been wondering why there is even a market for the drivers alone. What are people doing with them? There must be a huge DIY market out there. I would think though it would be as cheap, and the driver specs would be available, to buy new drivers.

Or is it for spare parts ? Perhaps to keep a good one running, others have to be sacrificed for their internals ? Tweeters can be short-lived creatures unfortunately.

It does hurt to see the vintage speaks tore apart though.

Ken C.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi Ken_c

Ebay is the largest spare parts source that I can think of.

I am sure that there is hobbiest that acquire drivers and other parts to create there own speaker system or repair their own.

I do believe there is those that buy and do repairs and those that just flip their purchases.

One only has to read some of the write-ups on this site, for example, someone couldn't wait to tear apart an AR speaker and replace the insulation, crossover components, wires and the drivers to obtain a different or more modern sound.

Time will come when we won't be seeing such a plentiful supply of original parts on the used market.

You should see my museum of abundance that I have when I took pity and brought home from various sources to give them a good home or at least keep them off the streets.

One can only do so much.

At least I wouldn't mind if the damaged cabinets were offered for free for local pickup.

If you have seen the photo of a stack of AR-LST's and psuedo LST's in this web site, you can see where one has tried to create with other drivers copy cats of the original LST'S.

By using Allison drivers to create one copy there is now a fewer OEM drivers available on the used market, for now, but this was a hobbiests attempt to create an AR-LST or their version.

If the results were less than satisfactory we may see the used drivers for sale on ebay as well.

I, attempted as well, to create a Dynaco version decades ago using Dynaco drivers.

My skills as a carpenter were less than what was required but anyways the end results were not very memorable.

If I attempted to try it again, I have more knowledge but still no better cabinet skills.

My attempt was probably closer to the MST than the LST.

Switch with resistors, same as A-25, 4 tweeters, serial, parallel, and 1 Dyna woofer.

I couldn't afford the original AR-LST's, or maybe it was because of WAF at the time.

I saw recently an ebay auction for AR-3A's where the seller listed shipping costs in the US and exported.

Even if he gave me those speakers, the shipping would have been too expensive.

All we can do is try and accept this is the way things are going to be and not cry about it, well not too loudly anyways.

With a better ending note, I did read at least once on this site where someone offered for cost of shipping only to ship a few pairs of speakers.

A very kind and generous offer to be sure.

Have a great day.

Vern

>I 've been wondering why there is even a market for the

>drivers alone. What are people doing with them? There must

>be a huge DIY market out there. I would think though it would

>be as cheap, and the driver specs would be available, to buy

>new drivers.

>

>Or is it for spare parts ? Perhaps to keep a good one

>running, others have to be sacrificed for their internals ?

>Tweeters can be short-lived creatures unfortunately.

>

>It does hurt to see the vintage speaks tore apart though.

>

>Ken C.

[ar_pro]

The current replacement drivers are *not* identical to original-equipment ones, so the vintage drivers will always have value as the only option for authenticity.

It's interesting to compare the feelings on this forum toward "parting out" functioning AR systems against what is commonly done with vintage Altec & JBL drivers. There doesn't seem to be the same overall sentiment against this activity among Altec fans, perhaps because so many original Altec & JBL systems *started* with raw drivers, and a set of cabinet plans.

Frankly, I'm glad to see the availability of parted-out drivers - accurately restoring a vintage AR system would not be possible without them.

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there

You are absolutely 100% correct in your comment.

Regarding the present field replacement of original drivers, parting is the only present option.

I don't know that I am alone, but the original enclosure is just as warm a feeling as the other parts.

It seems such a waste to toss the enclosures into the dump.

I know I've read comments of readers finding neighbours speakers out for the garbage men and they somehow found a better home next door.

I have never been so lucky but 2 years ago on a service call my customer gave me 2 AR-14 speakers which he was going to put out for the garbage men. Not that I needed them.

He didn't have to twist my arm very much and he helped me load them into my van.

Another addition to my cluttered museum.

JBL and Altec with their drivers being available as separates does not give as warm feeling without the factory enclosure. But they have their ardent fans.

Side note.

One of my customers was given, as in free, a mint ( as in flawless ) pair of AR-LST's from his friend when the surrounds went south.

By the time I saw them, there was Radio Shack woofers in the enclosures. The woofers had been dumped. Are you crying yet?

Another friend had robbed AR-LST2's of their drivers and tossed the enclosures and the crossovers into the garbage.

Thank you for adding your very welcome comments.

Vern

>

>The current replacement drivers are *not* identical to

>original-equipment ones, so the vintage drivers will always

>have value as the only option for authenticity.

>

>It's interesting to compare the feelings on this forum toward

>"parting out" functioning AR systems against what is commonly

>done with vintage Altec & JBL drivers. There doesn't seem to

>be the same overall sentiment against this activity among

>Altec fans, perhaps because so many original Altec & JBL

>systems *started* with raw drivers, and a set of cabinet

>plans.

>

>Frankly, I'm glad to see the availability of parted-out

>drivers - accurately restoring a vintage AR system would not

>be possible without them.