Acoustic Research 30th Anniversary Limited Edition AR9LS; Interesting ?

[genek]

Thanks for the correction. Still "pre 1986" though.

I've edited the Wikipedia page for AR's company history.

[briodo]

Those are absolutely stunning. 

Not sure where along the production process AR went to using a poly coat on these speakers, but I can share my experience with the ones I own.

Mine are a later model pair of AR9LSi which required complete strip of the poly coat due to it beginning to lift on the Walnut wood underneath.  After stripping the polycoat, I  used a simple oil stain rather than redoing with a poly coat.  I love the way they look.

Mine used a circuit board crossover, which was a first for me with any AR.  Made it rather interesting to rework the caps.

Like @harry398 says "If done right, they will be incredible speakers.   And I mean Incredible".  Amen on that one

Also wanted to let @frankmarsiknow I have a home for wayward LST's if he decides to "upgrade" to the AR9LSi 🙂

Some pictures of my LSi project here: AR9LSi Info Needed

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by briodo
added link

[frankmarsi]

1 hour ago, briodo said:

Those are absolutely stunning. 

Not sure where along the production process AR went to using a poly coat on these speakers, but I can share my experience with the ones I own.

Mine are a later model pair of AR9LSi which required complete strip of the poly coat due to it beginning to lift on the Walnut wood underneath.  After stripping the polycoat, I  used a simple oil stain rather than redoing with a poly coat.  I love the way they look.

Mine used a circuit board crossover, which was a first for me with any AR.  Made it rather interesting to rework the caps.

Like @harry398 says "If done right, they will be incredible speakers.   And I mean Incredible".  Amen on that one

Also wanted to let @frankmarsiknow I have a home for wayward LST's if he decides to "upgrade" to the AR9LSi 🙂

Some pictures of my LSi project here: AR9LSi Info Needed

 

How do you say in english?  TAKEN  FROM  MY COLD DEAD HANDS!  

FAT-CHANCE

NO-WAY

NOT ON YOUR LIFE

P.S. There is no upgrade from double AR-LST's with ample high-power.  I built my dream-system around my speakers. Once I had the speaker and amplifiers set-up as the concrete foundation, I concentrated all of my efforts on the quality of inputs. While doing that I went through the cable trial periods, room treatment, etc.  I've professed this philosophy all along in most of my posts here, it's not my first rodeo. In other words, I've reached the top of the mountain and at this point I solely concentrate on my vast musical selections for glorious and sublime listening pleasure.

 

[harry398]

https://youtu.be/6rB2W0umdq0?t=204

wires.

 

what did we learn?https://youtu.be/ZyWt3kANA3Q?t=1677

 

[Chris1this1]

Mission accomplished. Each speaker has an LS/LSi switch, as well as an NPE/poly film cap switch. I’m still waiting on the foam for the bass chambers to arrive as well as one last quad of NPE’s. The speakers are up and running though.
 

The original NPE’s mostly tested higher but still within their tolerance, but to me that is an early sign of degradation. Also there was a mix of three different brands, and also different brands in each speaker in similar locations. 
 

i’m pretty sure the speakers are too big for my room, but I must say the bass is extremely impressive, so clean and precise. I have been preferring the LSi position. However I am missing the more polite but still forward midrange presentation of the AR3’s previously in their location. (Edit- I am pretty confident the mid range presentation is a product of my preamp, and it’s suits the 3’s well, I would like to try a different preamp with these speakers) I’m going to get acquainted with these for a little while, but probably going to switch back to the 3’s, mainly due to their smaller stature, being less intrusive to the room. Here are some pictures

[RoyC]

1 hour ago, Chris1this1 said:

The original NPE’s mostly tested higher but still within their tolerance, but to me that is an early sign of degradation. Also there was a mix of three different brands, and also different brands in each speaker in similar locations.

Chris, what type of meter are you using to measure the caps? I doubt your readings are indicative of early degradation. Typical meters being used by hobbyists are measuring cpacitance at very low frequencies (as low as 8hz). Capacitance of NPE's vary with frequency, which is the primary reason they tend to "sound" different to audiophiles. The lower the measurement frequency, the higher the capacitance reading will be.

Roy

[Chris1this1]

30 minutes ago, RoyC said:

Chris, what type of meter are you using to measure the caps? I doubt your readings are indicative of early degradation. Typical meters being used by hobbyists are measuring cpacitance at very low frequencies (as low as 8hz). Capacitance of NPE's vary with frequency, which is the primary reason they tend to "sound" different to audiophiles. The lower the measurement frequency, the higher the capacitance reading will be.

Roy

Roy, I’m using a calibrated Fluke 87v meter. Why I suspect degradation would be from prior experiences recapping older electronics. I’ve noticed the older caps tend to show higher values on this meter as they age. More importantly, on this meter, the new caps, both NPE and film varieties tend to measure very close to their specified values. Granted, Fluke isn’t specifying their test frequency, but  I have made comparative measurements with another bench top meter at work, with selectable 1,10, and 100KHz frequencies and this fluke tends to match up with the 10K measurements. 
 

Note that I have not commented on any differences of the NPE/Film cap switch. I will not go down that rabbit hole any time soon LOL. 

[RoyC]

22 minutes ago, Chris1this1 said:

Roy, I’m using a calibrated Fluke 87v meter.

Note that I have not commented on any differences of the NPE/Film cap switch. I will not go down that rabbit hole any time soon LOL. 

Your meter has a maximum measurement frequency of 200hz. This type of meter will automatically change frequencies based on capacitance.  Any capacitor over 20uf is typically measured at below 20hz with this type of meter. If you were able to manually switch the measurement frequency of your new NPE's, your readings would be different. The rated capacitance found printed on the side of new capacitors is the capacitance measured at 1000hz, and NPE capacitance will change with frequency. On the other hand, film cap capacitance does not change significantly (for speaker crossover purposes) with frequency.

"Note that I have not commented on any differences of the NPE/Film cap switch. I will not go down that rabbit hole any time soon LOL."

You are a very wise man, brother. 🙂

Roy

[ar_pro]

3 hours ago, Chris1this1 said:

I am pretty confident the mid range presentation is a product of my preamp, and it’s suits the 3’s well, I would like to try a different preamp with these speakers

Do you have a CD player or streamer, Chris? You could run it directly into your Soundcraftsmen amplifier, using the amp's controls to set the level.

I really like the veneer on these - it makes for a much more interesting-looking speaker. I think it has an even better appearance than the original AR-9.

[JKent]

Those are beautiful! Great work! And I like them "naked" 😄

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of the wood. Real wood veneer? Looks to me like Rosewood, which is period-appropriate but very rare today. Beautiful wood.

[AR surround]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:10 PM, Chris1this1 said:

Mission accomplished.

Wonderful restoration, Chris.  Enjoy them!   One question:  What is your technique for popping out those detentions in the midrange domes?

[Jim Pearce]

Breathlessly waiting for the replies on the dented domes!

Very basic question here, what type of capacitor would offer the best longevity and performance in terms of sonic character?

I guess I'm asking about what type of capacitor would be neutral sounding and last a long time.

[Chris1this1]

From a few more days of listening, I can say they are voiced very differently than what I’m used to hearing out of my AR3’s and LST’s. Even bypassing the preamp and having my DAC directly into the power amp as ar_pro Suggested, their voicing is still apparent. I’m not saying this is a bad thing, it’s just different than what I have been used to for a long time. Sometimes change is good, sometimes it’s good for a short period. We will see. 
 

For the dented mid domes. When the assembly was removed from the speaker, the sides of it were sealed with aluminum tape. I just poked a hole in the aluminum tape and blew compressed air in that hole in a very controlled manor and popped the domes out like that. I also used a hairdryer to get the domes nice and pliable to try to get the ripples out as much as I could, but some still remain. 

My only comment on capacitors is, the big white film caps are high quality industrial caps by Electronic Concepts out of Eatontown New Jersey,  which I always have certain values on hand, but for the values I did not have, are used the Dayton polys. Many vintage AR’s came with Chicago Industrial caps, which fit the form and function and allow the speakers to perform as intended. I have no doubt that these ECI’s and Dayton’s won’t fall short of that. 

[JKent]

13 minutes ago, Chris1this1 said:

Electronic Concepts out of Eatontown New Jersey

Interesting. Had never heard of them. Checked their website. Do they sell directly to the public? Did you go to the factory in Eatontown? How are the prices? So many questions. It's about an hour and a half drive for me, so not that great but I have a friend within 20 minutes of Eatontown.

[Aadams]

4 hours ago, Chris1this1 said:

From a few more days of listening, I can say they are voiced very differently than what I’m used to hearing out of my AR3’s and LST’s. Even bypassing the preamp and having my DAC directly into the power amp as ar_pro Suggested, their voicing is still apparent.

Chris

The LS(i) mod brings the mid range balance into approximate alignment with an unattenuated AR9, which sounds quite forward in a reverberant room like the one you show.  The LSI, having no attenuators, requires mild equalizer adjustments to give it the frequency balance or voicing of the AR3a, 5 or 9, an approach that should also work for an  AR3 or LST.  

Adams

 

[harry398]

Keep listening Chris.

You will decide what is best.   

 

[harry398]

Come on Chris...the world is waiting for the results.

 

[harry398]

Fresh listening to 3a.

Back to 9lsi.

 

Lets hear it🍺Chris......

[Chris1this1]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:11 PM, harry398 said:

Fresh listening to 3a.

Back to 9lsi.

 

Lets hear it🍺Chris......

All right Harry, I’ll state what my current status would be. Right now, the AR3’s are back to location, after some minor tweaking of the 9’s UMR resistor (when in LSI mode.) that UMR was just too hot I’m my room, so I added a total of 4 ohms to attenuate it, which did balance it to my liking, but the tweeter seemed to overwhelm, so when I get back to it, I want to attenuate that now. 
 

Taking a step back, I thought why not just add a set of 10 ohm pots to the UMR and tweeter? easily allowing room tuning. But again, I strongly think, it’s just MY room and listening position not lending themselves to these huge speakers. All that considered, I will most likely go back to the 2.5 ohm UMR resistor, activated by the LSI switch to keep all crossover points and output the same as intended, since I don’t really want to mess with the design. 
 

I do miss the thunderous bass of the 9, but the 3’s still put it out strong. I’ve taken measures to isolate my turntable and with the 3’s in use, I have no feedback issues. Not only do the 9’s make my whole room shake, they do not permit me to listen to the turntable at volumes I am able to with the 3’s. Again, all issues with my listening space lol. 
 

The 9’s will probably “stay on ice” for a bit until I find somewhere to set them up to really hear what they can do. 

[harry398]

I see that.

Well, all I can tell you is the AR9LS i is a beast to tame,ive commented extensively on that in other threads.      

Once tamed, tuned...there may never had been better....or ever.

I tamed mine.   4 times inside the Kings cabinet.

No denying the 3 is good, or at least 3a that i know, but its just not as accurate.   Great tones, but the 4 way is more precise/accurate.  AR  did not release the LS series ready to rock.

Do keep us posted.