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What version do I have?


jomede

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2 hours ago, jomede said:

I would like to refoam them and give them a good listening to on my Marantz Amplifier.

Is your Marantz old or new and is it rated for 4 ohm operation?  If not fairly new or 4 ohm rated,  it could be ok for just light testing but not to run these speakers in normal use.  If the amp is not 4ohm rated either the speaker could "eat" the amp or the opposite, which could be fatal for these ARs. 

 

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It's a Marantz NR 1608 rated for 4-8 ohm speakers. It's around 75 watts per channel @ 4ohms. 50 watts per channel @8 ohms.

 

NR1608's power amp section features discrete high-current output devices for superb sound with both music and movies, with, identical power on all 7 channels for precision sound. Rated at 50 watts per channel (8 ohm, 20 Hz – 20 kHz, 0.08% THD), the NR1608 features low-impedance drive capability, for excellent speaker control, and is compatible with 4 ohm speakers too. Meanwhile the Eco mode provides energy savings: it features an on-screen Eco meter, while it’s also possible to use the receiver in power-saving mode, either reducing the maximum output power or adopting low-power strategies at more modest settings – and all without any effect on the superb sound quality.

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I cancelled my simply speaker order. One question...on the foam outer ring there is a raised piece of some sort. The new foam does not come with this material. Just scrape the foam off of it and leave it attached to the basket frame and glue the new foam down to it? 

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19 hours ago, jomede said:

I took the 2 nuts off of the inside part of the speaker binding post and tried to push it through with no luck.

The attachment of the PCB is the real mystery here. Apart from the four nuts (one per terminal) visible in these pics, there are four blobs of hot melt holding the corners of the circuit board in place. I would assume that there is at least 1/4" space between the backside of the PCB and the Masonite panel and that in this void space there is a substantial lock nut (and washer) to structurally secure the binding post, and there might also be small stand-offs for the L-pad shafts, too. Is it possible that the PCB might easily lift up after: removing other two visible interior nuts; removing L-pad knobs and outer nuts; and slicing though hot glue?

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1 hour ago, jomede said:

That sounds like a feasible plan of attack. Was waiting for feedback from you experts....

Just to be clear - - am no expert on this - - in fact, have never seen this model of speaker or that particular circuit board, but the assembly is a bit of a mystery. My guess here is that the L-pads are anchored to the PCB, and then their stems are poked thru the rear cabinet panel and secured again. Conversely, I think the terminal posts are secured to the Masonite, and then their stems are poked thru the PCB and nutted again. Just a guess, but it sounds feasible. In your most recent pic, it looks like foam pads at the corners achieve the clearance under the PCB.  

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Congratulations. You won the speaker lottery.

It would be something if you had found a pair in the vinyl wrap. Not as satisfying aesthetically, but extremely rare nonetheless. But you found a pair in oak veneer. Incredible!

Would it be possible to fashion a pair of jumpers from the mid/tweet posts that will friction fit to the woofer connection, using some sort of clamp?

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jomede,

Coincidentally, I plan to be in your neighborhood the weekend of March 14th. If you don't mind holding off on the repairs (including the re-foam) I'm sure I can be of assistance. Send me a PM if you would like to discuss details of a possible "house call". :)

Roy

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@jomede

Hi Jomede,

Congratulations on your AR-3a!

If you don't mind, could you please post clear photos (front and rear with part number) of their tweeters. From the first photo they look like the rare Tonegen  paper dome tweeters.

Thank you

PS: if the domes of your 3a tweeters are made of paper be very careful with them because they are very very fragile.

 

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@jomede

Thank you Jomede,

The driver is a rare paper dome tweeter manufactured by Tonegen. Unfortunately the number printed on the label is not clear (it could be 200084-0).

In the early 90s there was a limited manufacturing of Ar-3a and AR-10 Pi Replicas in Italy. A very long time ago ( in 2003 ) I wrote about them here: 

 

I asked you for the tweeter part number because  I saw several part numbers used for that tweeter. So if you don't mind checking also that of the other tweeter I would appreciate it very much!

 

In 2014 I created a thread on the Italian Ar-3a and Ar-10 Pi Replicas in wich I added some photos: 

 

 

The Tonegen paper dome tweeters were also used in some Cello Amati (Mark Levinson).

 

CELLO-AMATI-LOUDSPEAKERS-extra-big-23822-676.thumb.jpg.a6deaf01202c76ba76cfa75ce75fdc02.jpg

CELLO-AMATI-LOUDSPEAKERS-extra-big-23828-674.thumb.jpg.9aa5da17ce923a83385f5fa0b052f8a3.jpg

 

Member Adriano (nick name Sonnar @Sonnar) has an AR 3a version very similar to yours.

The Tonegen woofers used in yours and Adriano's AR 3as as well as in Cello production have larger dust caps in comparison with those that are seen more frequenty in "normal" 1210003-2a woofers .

 

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On 3/5/2020 at 12:11 PM, jomede said:

So are mine the 1991 AR3a Replicas or the Limited?

It's hard to say.

Unfortunately I have never seen and examined the AR-3a Limited. All I know about it derive  from some members of this forum especially John O'Hanlon (forum nickname Johnieo @johnieo) and Mihn Luong (forum nickname mluong303 @mluong303). Unfortunately, they have not been writing on these pages for a long time. If they still read the pages of this forum, I take the opportunity to greet them.

Some aspects of your AR-3a  are similar to those of the AR-3a Limited others to those of the Italian AR-3a Replica. For instance your 3a crossover (components, PCB and wires) is the same as that of the 3a Limited (see the photo posted by Mloung303 in this thread  http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/5330-ar-3a-reissue/&do=findComment&comment=78855  ) . On the other hand, the fact that the furniture seems to be veneered with real wood is an aspect similar to the AR-3a Replica. However, like the cabinets of modern speaker the AR-3a Replica has a veneer surface much more refined and smoth than that of the Original AR 3a.

Johnieo said that: “the Genuine AR-3a Limited had a "picture frame" front similar to the US AR-3a, with the exception that its width was 1-inch instead of 1-1/4 inch” (http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/5330-ar-3a-reissue/&do=findComment&comment=78841 )

 

The AR-3a Replica picture frame molding is 31.8 mm (1.252 in) thick at the “base” and 31.4 mm (1.236 in) thick at the “top” and, moreover,  unlike original AR-3a the inner edge is not squared but round (see pictures).

So please check the thickness and the edge of you AR-3a picture frame molding and please let us know.

In the AR-3a Replica I examined,  all the screws are metric but I don’t know if there was some variations during their production. So, please check also your AR 3a screws as  this can be a useful information.

Today I have taken my brother’s AR-3a Replica apart to take some photos of its crossover. I have also taken  some photos in comparision with a genuine old AR-3a that I should restore.  These AR 3a Replicas were first bought by a friend that later gave them to my brother  since in his listening room they never sounded well. My friend replaced the original caps and wires with “better components” in the hope that the sound could improve but to our ears nothing changed probably because the original electrolyte NP caps were new.  The original tweeter cap was a generic polypropylene (or polyester I don’t remember) one but my friend replaced even that. The original connection wires were  common type electric wires that my friend replaced with Cardas cables.

PS If you don’t mind could you please post also the part number of the other tweeter of your  AR-3as? Unfortunately the part number you posted is not clear and these tweeters are rare and their part number variation are still an enigma for me.

Thank you

 

AR3aReplica_front.JPG.a7c48dba57e6925240c77073616058a9.JPG

AR3aReplica_rear.JPG.8d90069b616edb477722e827e9ecd505.JPG

 

the AR-3a Replica upgraded crossover: bobbins, L-pads,  PCB are genuine. Original capacitors, resistor and wires were replaced with "better" components. 

AR3aReplica_crossover.JPG.9e34fef7d07edda4fe6344f8df6fb17c.JPG

 

The original crossover

AR-3a_Replica_1991_crossover_CSP.thumb.jpg.43abf981bb7e3f686cad8c1c505f0e3c.jpg

 

Original AR-3a and AR-3a Replica on the left and right respectively

AR3aReplica_vs_Original_front.JPG.77ab9185ea1fb21964ea808177ae0561.JPG

AR3aReplica_vs_Original_rear.JPG.f716dc8c0f73526670ebb05242759cde.JPG

Original_AR3a_label.thumb.JPG.5257e645fd027a0bb66509c4f036b51d.JPG

 

differences in the wood veneers: on the left the Original AR-3a, on the right the Italian AR-3a Replica. The wood veneer surface of the AR-3a Replica is much more refined and smoth than that of the original AR-3a but this aspect can't be fully appreciated by the photo.

2016024258_wood_difference_Original_on_the_left.JPG.a10092a0964a0cb95520bf4ef6ead744.JPG

 

AR-3a Replica picture frame molding. The inner edge is round. The picture frame molding is 31.8 mm (1.252 in) thick at the “base” and 31.4 mm (1.236 in) thick at the “top”.

3point8mm_3a_Replica_base_picture_edge.JPG.44fa9acbd0f034cdeb8b5b8dad0b78a4.JPG

3point4mm_top_picture_edge.thumb.JPG.4c62060169ad73d0dc66088b309b78fc.JPG

 

 

 

Original 3a picture frame molding. The inner edge is squared. The thicness is the same both at the base and the top (31.75mm, 1.25").

3point75mm_Original_3a_picture_edge.JPG.85fae981cdb32e209a9ff2cbbb6f9ea3.JPG

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I like how the back of the cabinets are covered with veneer. Much like my AR 10pi speakers. Going back to your broken binding post. Have you lifted the cricut board yet to see how they are configured? If the holes are 3/4 in on center maybe these would work for replacements. You could get a couple to see, and if not compatible they could be used on another project.

https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-dual-binding-post-banana-jack-1-red-1-black--090-475

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I am going to order some of those tonight and have them here when RoyC shows up next weekend to help me refoam the woofers. He is the expert and I would rather wait on him to proceed. I would hate to mess the crossovers up getting them apart. I want to keep them as pristine as possible.

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45 minutes ago, jomede said:

I am going to order some of those tonight and have them here when RoyC shows up next weekend to help me refoam the woofers. He is the expert and I would rather wait on him to proceed. I would hate to mess the crossovers up getting them apart. I want to keep them as pristine as possible.

Good things come to those that wait. 

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