AR Replacement Drivers

[DavidR]

Has anyone tried either of these AR replacement drivers from Simply Speakers?

Mid/UMR:   https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic-research-replacement-midrange-12100103.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuNzQ0LGP5AIVAYvICh3RlAdxEAQYASABEgKsHfD_BwE

12" woofer:   https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic-research-replacement-woofer-12100032.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuNzQ0LGP5AIVAYvICh3RlAdxEAQYBCABEgKzBvD_BwE

 

Thoughts/Opinions

 

I'm using this tweeter from Midwest Speaker and it's very close to the original tweeters. Actually so close I'm really unable to hear a difference,   https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/home-audio/tweeters/dome/mw-audio-mt-4121-75-inch-dome-tweeter/

[Giorgio AR]

Hi David, I don't know the qualities and the differences between the W. and M. sold by Simplyspeakers (in my opinion it is easier that the mid dome is similar to performance and easily interchangeable with the original AR), I think that for the woofer there are many differences with respect to the original (Luigi Fedele and Roy seem to me to have already given a judgment noting many differences between the two types of woofers: coil resistance, type of cone paper and different stiffness of the spider ...).
I really care about your judgment on the tweeter: in which AR speaker did it replace the original? Has it been replaced without crossover modifications? was it also tested on AR3 / AR3a and what impressions did you get?
I think many passionate ARs are waiting for your feelings !!
Good listening
Giorgio

[Stimpy]

I truely believe that midrange dome, is the same driver used by Ken Kantor, in  his final AR series of speakers.  Those were the AR303s, 302s, 338s, and 302Ts ( and maybe others).  Ken's designs used the mesh cover and damping material over the dome, but I'm pretty sure that's the same dome underneath.  As such, hopefully owners of one of those speakers will chime in?

[DavidR]

On 8/19/2019 at 2:57 PM, Giorgio AR said:

I really care about your judgment on the tweeter: in which AR speaker did it replace the original?

I used the Midwest tweeters in my 10Pi. The one that failed was the 200011 and the other was a replacement that was 200084 IIRC.

I restored the 10Pi speakers using electrolytic capacitors with a 0.01uF Vishay 1837 poly film cap on the two series caps. I use them on a tube amp pushing 60 wpc.

I could not hear a difference between the Midwest tweeter and the AR 200084.

I am asking for opinions as our AR speakers are getting old and ferro-fluid is drying up. I'm not aware of anyone repairing the 200028 or 200032 UMR and the 200029 tweeter. There is one member who had some success with the 200029 tweeter. We may have to turn to other options.

[Stimpy]

I'm not sure if it was here at CSP or AK, but there have been threads discussing aging ferrofluid.  I remember reading responses to the effect to where AR was purported to use a high quality ferrofluid, that wasn't subject to drying out or crystallization?  And even if the ferrofluid did thicken slightly, normal playback levels (and the resultant heat) would be enough to thin the fluid to normal.  I have no idea as to the validity of these claims, but reading the statements were enough to ease my mind on the subject.

[Stimpy]

The 338.

 

[ra.ra]

2 hours ago, DavidR said:

There is one member who had some success with the 200029 tweeter.

That was a really great thread about that tweeter re-build. The mid driver from Simply Speakers looks to be robust and well-built (it should be at that price!), but alas, no personal experience to report.

1 hour ago, Stimpy said:

The 338.

Have never seen or heard this model, and it does hold a lot of interest, but the dome mid driver in the 338 is different from the one used in the 302 and 303.

[Stimpy]

3 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

...Have never seen or heard this model, and it does hold a lot of interest, but the dome mid driver in the 338 is different from the one used in the 302 and 303.

I've always wondered if the 303/302 dome was different from the 338, or was it the same dome, where one used the additional mesh and damping material, and the other model didn't?  More of a cost saving measure?

And if you like the 338, how about the 302T?

 

[ra.ra]

I don't want to derail David's thread here, but I'm sure the differences in those mid drivers goes beyond the felt damping and wire cage. The 338 interests me because I want to hear an AR three-way with 8-inch woofer, but I tend not to like vinyl cabinets - - faux wood especially. And with the 302T with it's 10-inch woofer (or 338T with 8-inch) - - - well, I don't particularly have a taste for vertical speakers either. But it's always interesting to second guess the cost evaluation decisions that go into these speaker line-ups within a series.   

It's good to hear that David likes the Midwest tweeter option - - I think I recall that RoyC had pretty much the same evaluation. 

[Giorgio AR]

Thanks David, your answer I think will give a good grade to the Midwest tweeter.
My curiosity is to know if it can also be used as a substitute for the AR3a tweeters (since the tweeter is produced in China, my hope is that the paper dome can also be reproduced, as Tonegen did in the 1990s AR3a Limited tweeter).

As you know, finding the original AR midranges of the various years is quite easy (apart from the prices that vary on average upwards), but the biggest difficulty is finding AR3a tweeters that sound like new, so the "magic" of the AR sound can come back!

Giorgio

[Aadams]

6 hours ago, Giorgio AR said:

My curiosity is to know if it can also be used as a substitute for the AR3a tweeters

This is the most recent comprehensive discussion of the 3a 3/4" tweeter topic.  Page 2

 

[Stimpy]

Some good info concerning UMR issues and ferrofluid issues in these threads.  Most appear to feel the ferrofluid should be OK.  But, as RoyC pointed out in one thread, there's also the issue of the fiberglass damping under the dome, becoming displaced and causing output problems.  Maybe that's at play here?

Are my AR9s getting old?

AR-3 Restore or not?

Replacing ferrofluid on dome upper mids of AR-90s

Dried out ferrofluid ?

Teledyne Era AR's

200028 vs 200032 1 1/2 inch MR

 

 

 

 

[DavidR]

Thanks for all the links Stimpy.

[DavidR]

I'm having trouble find the thread on the CSP member who has had some success repairing the 200029 tweeter.

Does anyone know where to find it? Not sure if it was moved. No success with Search function.

 

[DavidR]

I found it

 

[DavidR]

Has anyone used the Simply Speakers AR replacement tweeter as a replacement for the 200029 in a AR9 or 90?

https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic-research-replacement-tweeter-12000840.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoOqkk8Wt5QIVkYTICh1bQQswEAQYASABEgJHw_D_BwE

I have used the MidWest Speakers tweeter replacement in a 10Pi but I'm thinking there may be differences and this wouldn't be the best replacement for the 9 series speakers.

https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/home-audio/tweeters/dome/mw-audio-mt-4121-75-inch-dome-tweeter/

[Stimpy]

To me at least, the Mid West tweeter looks like an AR-9/90 tweeter, with the face plate removed.  I'd use their tweeter, along with the face plate from an AR-9 tweeter.  The Mid West unit doesn't have the 4 inner mounting holes, but the 3 outer holes would still hold everything together.  That would give the tweeter the slight horn recess too.

[DavidR]

The Simply Speakers tweeter IS the AR replacement. It has the 200084 part number in the modern form 12000840. If you put a white circle on it would resemble the small circle AR tweeter originals. The MidWest unit resembles the AR tweeters from the AR11 and 10Pi, perhaps others too. I was more curious which one sounds like the 9-series tweeters in a 90 and 9 speakers. I believe the 200084 is the replacement tweeter for the 10Pi, 11 and 9-series.

[RoyC]

34 minutes ago, DavidR said:

The Simply Speakers tweeter IS the AR replacement. It has the 200084 part number in the modern form 12000840. If you put a white circle on it would resemble the small circle AR tweeter originals. The MidWest unit resembles the AR tweeters from the AR11 and 10Pi, perhaps others too. I was more curious which one sounds like the 9-series tweeters in a 90 and 9 speakers. I believe the 200084 is the replacement tweeter for the 10Pi, 11 and 9-series.

The tweeter sold by SImply Speakers was sourced and sold by AB Tech as an AR replacement long after AR went out of business. It is rather cheaply made and has no damping material under the dome. Performance is different from the tweeters it is intended to replace, and its best attributes are cosmetic.

The Midwest tweeter is much closer in construction and performance to all iterations of the cloth dome tweeter used in the AR-11 and 9 models, regardless of (AR) faceplate differences.

Roy

[Stimpy]

Good to know Roy.  Thanks!

Also, I assume that's why Midwest offers both 4 and 8 Ohm versions.  Two different versions, that could cross-pollinate most any model of AR speaker.

 

[DavidR]

2 hours ago, RoyC said:

The tweeter sold by SImply Speakers was sourced and sold by AB Tech as an AR replacement long after AR went out of business. It is rather cheaply made and has no damping material under the dome. Performance is different from the tweeters it is intended to replace, and its best attributes are cosmetic.

The Midwest tweeter is much closer in construction and performance to all iterations of the cloth dome tweeter used in the AR-11 and 9 models, regardless of (AR) faceplate differences.

Roy

Thank you Roy. That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Some of my 200029 tweeters have weak output (and no top end), I suspect dried ferro-fluid. I sent seventy1 a PM to see if he's doing these for others.

I was wondering if the tweeters and mids Simply Speakers are selling was the AB stock. I thought that maybe AB Tech bought out AR's stock.

What about the 12" woofer Simply Speakers sells for AR replacement?

[RoyC]

6 hours ago, DavidR said:

Thank you Roy. That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Some of my 200029 tweeters have weak output (and no top end), I suspect dried ferro-fluid. I sent seventy1 a PM to see if he's doing these for others.

I was wondering if the tweeters and mids Simply Speakers are selling was the AB stock. I thought that maybe AB Tech bought out AR's stock.

What about the 12" woofer Simply Speakers sells for AR replacement?

The 12 inch AR woofer, cloth dome mid, and Large Advent replacement woofers are replicas wholesaled by AB Tech. Although the woofers look fairly authentic, the cones are lighter and compliance is much lower than original. The AR replacement mid will probably do in a pinch, with a slight cabinet hole modification for the terminals, but it is less sensitive (smaller magnet) and does not have the same response as the AR dome mids it is intended to replace.

As AR's primary service center, AB Tech continued to provide oem replacement parts after AR went out of business. Other than some older AR stock, most of the remaining drivers were initially manufactured by Tonegen in Japan for AR, and served as high quality replacements for a decade or so. When these were no longer available, AB Tech began sourcing various replacements/replicas elsewhere in Asia. Unfortunately many of these drivers fit the cabinet holes better than match the performance of the originals.

The original owner of AB Tech closed the business a few years ago, selling a small inventory of remaining old stock (mostly some used cabinets, old drivers, and a few NOS AR-9 tweeters) to Vintage AR/Larry Lagace. Some of the later ABT replica drivers are still being sold by Simply Speakers and others.

Roy

 

 

[DavidR]

NEWS **** UPDATE **** NEWS

Back when this thread was rolling I contacted Midwest Speakers and asked if they had a midrange replacement. They said they didn't and was wondering if there was an interest. I hooked them up with a couple of links to threads discussing the various replacements that were available and said their tweeter was the most accurate copy out there. They had a 200044 mid for developing a copy and decided to move forward with it. They said it would take a year or so.

tweeter link >   https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/home-audio/tweeters/dome/mw-audio-mt-4121-75-inch-dome-tweeter/

Well today I looked up the email regarding this topic and asked if they had any developments. Positive news arrived quickly. They wrote back with this:

"Hi, 

They were supposed to be here about 3 weeks ago, but our shipment has been stuck in the port in CA.  Hopefully we will see it in a few weeks."

They will retail for $114.95 each. I just might buy one or two and be the guinea pig.

[Giorgio AR]

On 8/20/2019 at 12:32 AM, DavidR said:

I used the Midwest tweeters in my 10Pi. The one that failed was the 200011 and the other was a replacement that was 200084 IIRC

David, I forgot that I also had AB / Simplyspeakers tweeters in a pair of AR58s, I took them out (and then sold them) and got a pair of 200029 1s as a replacement.
Although the AR58s originally had the 200043 tweeter, this is harder to find, I can tell you that in my opinion the original AR tweeters definitely have less output (AR draft) and probably less harsh than over-replacement manufacturing. I kept the tweeters 200029 1 in use on the AR58s and when listening I don't regret the "old" AB / Simply substitutes.
Probably the best replacement and improvement in your AR10TTs could be the AR / TNG tweeter, you see it in the photo below, it is the one of my AR10TT replica, in my opinion better than all the previous AR production, same goes for the mid TNG as a substitute.

TNG tweeter

TNG mid

[DavidR]

The mids in my 10Pi are fine. I had one bad driver in one of my AR9s.

Sooner or later all of the ferrofluid drivers will be bad and I'm not waiting to find a correct/suitable replacement.