Jump to content

AR-410 refoam (never again!)


JKent

Recommended Posts

I was asked to refurbish a pair of AR TSW-410s. Never having worked on these before I said "sure!" Never again.

The woofers are 8" with plastic cones. I ordered some surrounds from SpeakerWorks along with the hated nitrile adhesive so they would stick to the plastic. White glue is so easy! 

The surrounds were a crumbly mess. No surprise. I pried off the external gaskets and started to work on the remains of the foam. What a sticky, gooey mess! Roy had advised to have plenty of alcohol on hand to clean my tools. My advice: Have plenty of alcohol on hand . . . to drink!

Not only was the goo particularly stubborn but there is a cardboard ring around the perimeter of the basket (to set the correct height I guess). With the goo softened and before I realized there was a cardboard ring, I accidentally sliced it. No biggie--it can be glued.

So one woofer is nearly complete. The oak base on one speaker has split so that will have to be repaired. The NPE caps look like a PITA to get at and since they're not "that" old I may leave them.

Will post more pics when finished.

-Kent

TSW 5_edited-1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, nefertem said:

Sometimes it is just better replacing the driver 

Yeah--you may be right about that. These are circa 1990 and I don't think there was anything special about the driver (after all, these aren't AR-3s!). I'll bet these poly woofers would work https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-8028-8-butyl-surround-woofer-8-ohm--290-355 or maybe even these cheapies https://www.parts-express.com/grs-8pr-8-8-poly-cone-rubber-surround-woofer--292-428

Anyway . . . Glued the base. Finished and installed one woofer. It turned out fine. Will attack the other one tomorrow.

TSW clamped.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Argh! This resto keeps getting worse!

I didn’t notice until I started reassembling them that the mids don’t match! I pulled them and NEITHER is original One is a Radio Shack 40-12850 whizzer cone and the other is a Radio Shack 40-1033. And both are 8 ohms! The 410s are 4 ohm speakers according to the literature in the Library (no mention of this on the speakers themselves).

An internet search indicates the correct ones are part number 1210073-2A.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JKent, you'll get through this, but I definitely feel your pain. Until this latest report about the mis-matched and non-original mid drivers, this sounded mostly like a difficult and frustrating re-furb/resto project that is sometimes experienced when encountering new materials or questionable assembly techniques. Now it's beginning to feel like a depressing slog.

I do not know the TSW series at all, but I'm fairly confident that at least some of the models are decent speakers. Nonetheless, I could never find any appeal in the visual aesthetics - - I am no fan of black speakers or vertical speakers - - and slapping slabs of laminated wood at top and bottom is wholly unconvincing towards making them any more friendly toward a pleasing interior decor. The engineers might get a passing grade, but the stylists have failed the course. If there ever was a speaker calling itself out as a potted plant pedestal, look no further than the TSW series.     

Back in a thread from 2013, SteveF made this comment: The TSW ("Titanium Solid Wood" series, although AR insiders referred to them as the "This Sh*t Works" series). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Toluene (methyl benzene) will dissolve the old glue. Alcohol will make a bigger mess.

I got my surrounds for 610s from Vintage_AR and used his glue which is also dissolved by toluene.

The caps sit on the bottom side of the circuit board so you have to un-solder the two speaker terminals to remove it. I forget the name of the NPE brand used but it was something like Culver.

My son loves them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks David. Of all the solvents I have on hand, toluene isn't one of them. It's pretty nasty stuff. Where do you buy it?

I don't think I'll tackle the crossovers--looks like yet another PITA with these speakers (but I might--just found a schematic).

I'll probably get some 6.5" poly mid/woofers from PE and button these up.

ra.ra: One nit. The top & bottom panels are actually solid--not laminated or veneered.

AR TSW-410 xo.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DavidR said:

Toluene will dissolve the old glue. Alcohol will make a bigger mess.

That's basically what I was thinking, too. Also, David, it was probably one of your threads that led me to believe that some of these TSW speakers are very respectable performers. My other comments were simply expressions of personal taste and bias. As much as I appreciate my taste and touch and smell senses, I do likes my audio a great deal, too, but must confess I am mostly a visual nerd.  

30 minutes ago, JKent said:

Where do you buy it?

  While it might sound exotic, Toluene is available in many hardware stores located right between the lacquer thinner and the acetone.  

35 minutes ago, JKent said:

ra.ra: One nit. The top & bottom panels are actually solid--not laminated or veneered.

I'll see your nit, and raise you one pick. I know these tops are made from solid wood pieces, but when several solid smaller pieces are glued up in an assembly to assimilate a larger "solid" (meaning: singular) piece of wood, this is still referred to as a laminate. This is not to be confused with the idea of plastic laminate (i.e. Formica), which is really more like a thin wood veneer over a thicker substrate.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JKent said:

Thanks David. Of all the solvents I have on hand, toluene isn't one of them. It's pretty nasty stuff. Where do you buy it?

I bought a gallon of it at a paint and wallpaper place. It might be available at Home Depot in a quart size.

I worked for a paper and adhesive company for 30 years. I was the manager overseeing two solvent recovery systems and a distillation system. We had over 50,000 gals at anytime in underground storage tanks.

Just be sure to wear nitrile gloves as toluene will pull the fat out of your body right thru the skin. Well ventilate the area, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

David, it was probably one of your threads that led me to believe that some of these TSW speakers are very respectable performers.

Well, the 610s are good but my 91s are better; especially the mids. My son pounds them with my old Carver MXR150 The Receiver that I recapped. Some people really like the 810 and 910s a lot; I've never heard either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Toluene will dissolve all rubber based speaker adhesives. As Kent and David pointed out, however, it is very nasty stuff and not something I would use during the woofer preparation process for re-foam...which I usually do indoors. 91% alcohol is less offensive and happens to work well enough for clean up after dealing with the particularly gooey woofers found in AR TSW and some Boston Acoustics speakers. I seldom use a solvent on the cone itself.

I do use toluene and MEK (another nasty one) when dealing with voice coils and suspensions when rebuilding woofers and such things as AR-3 mids. I also use toluene in my cloth surround sealant. It is not sold in Home Depot or Lowes (only toluene "substitutes"). One Ace hardware store carries it in my area of upstate, NY, but it is getting hard to find in small quantities.

Be careful when moving the TSW cabinets around. The wood lip hanging over the front of the cabinet likes to break off. For all the features AR tried to incorporate into the TSW series, I always come away feeling like I should like them more than I do. Not a fan of 'em...

Roy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, DavidR said:

toluene will pull the fat out of your body right thru the skin.

Sounds like the perfect stuff for me to take a bath in! ?

8 hours ago, RoyC said:

Be careful when moving the TSW cabinets around. The wood lip hanging over the front of the cabinet likes to break off.

Exactly what happened to one of these!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ordered a pair of these: https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-poly-cone-midbass-woofer-4-ohm--299-609  I know they're not original but they should be WAY better than the mismatched Rat Shack driver that were in there. Actually, I understand these "buyout" speakers are pretty good and a good buy. We'll see . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've used Bravox drivers and I as I recall they were quite good. Not sure about these tough, they're made in China.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was at Atlantic Technology for around 10 years starting in 2003, we used Bravox cone drivers in our TOTL 6200 and 8200 speakers, both of which were THX-certified (during the days when THX cert really meant something, in terms of stringent FR, THD, max SPL, etc. requirements). They were great drivers, really uniform and refined. We used 12", 10, 8, 6 1/2 and 5 1/4.

BTW, the TSW-410 got a great review from High Fidelity magazine in 1989, I believe. I'm sure I have that edition in my stash. I'll dig it out and post it.

Steve F.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Giorgio AR. Those are part #1210100-1A and they are 6 ohm. The original, I believe, is 1210073-2A, 4 ohm. But I appreciate the help. The PE drivers arrive today so we'll see how they are.

Guido57, as a matter of fact, Goo Gone is one of the things I tried. I read somewhere that it may work (maybe in the SpeakerWorks instructions). But it didn't work on these. correction: I just checked the SpeakerWorks instructions. They recommend Goof Off, a different product (I think I have some but did not try it).

-Kent

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...