Using AR speakers in a home theater?

[gcrimmins]

I have a pair of AR91s, and just bought a pair of AR90s which will replace them once I do a little work on them. I have to use the same system for listening to music and watching TV and movies. I'm just looking for some tips on how to best do this with these speakers. I can see a couple of options for setting things up, but I'm not sure which is the best choice.

1. Use the AR speakers full range with no subwoofer.

2. Use the AR speakers with bass management so that everything below 80hz (or whatever is the best frequency) goes to the subwoofer.

3. Use the AR speakers full range and send just the low-frequency effects from TV and movies to a subwoofer.

4. Do #1 for music and #2 for TV and movies. 

I have two more related questions.

First, do you think using the AVR receiver for music is a good choice, or is it better to use a separate stereo pre-amp for music?

Second, are there any AVR receivers capable or driving a pair of AR91 or AR90 speakers, or will I need a power amplifier for the front pair of speakers? 

I'm on a pretty tight budget for this, but also want to work toward setting things up in a way that will sound best and not strain the speakers or amplifier. Any thoughts? 

--Geoff 

[Aadams]

Your post is not clear about what you are using now.  Are you using 91s as front speakers now? There are few new AV receivers designed to carry 4 ohm loads.  

[gcrimmins]

15 minutes ago, Aadams said:

Your post is not clear about what you are using now.  Are you using 91s as front speakers now? There are few new AV receivers designed to carry 4 ohm loads.  

Sorry about that. Right now I'm using the 91s as front speakers, and anticipate replacing them with the 90s. I don't have surround speakers right now, and don't feel a strong need to add them in future, but you never know. 

[Aadams]

What are you using to power the 91s?

[Stimpy]

I'm currently using a Yamaha RX-A3030 Aventage AVR for music and HT.  It's powering my AR58S fronts, single AR92 center, and a pair of NHT VT1.2 8" towers for surround.  While I'm not a head-banger, the Yamaha powers everything without issue.  But, at the time of purchase, my 3030 was the TOTL Yamaha AVR, and it is rated into 2 Ohms.

Soon, hopefully, I'll finish the refurb on my AR90's.  They'll replace my AR58S speakers, and the 58's will move to the surround position.  When that ever happens, I'll probably run a separate amp from the Yamaha, for the 90's.  But until then, the set up sounds great for whatever format I play through it.  I'm happy.

Oh, check out Accessories4Less, for AVR deals.  Great prices, and they're an authorized dealer for the lines they carry.  Nothing grey market.  Everything comes with a warranty too.

A4L

Good luck.

 

  

[genek]

My HT is a 5.0 using AR-3a's for the front speakers, AR-2ax's as the surrounds and an ARC225PS for the center. The center channel is the weak link, but no vintage AR will fit in the available space.

I don't have a sub and don't feel the need for one because I don't watch a lot of action movies. 

Power is via a 90s era 5ch Sherwood Newcastle amp and AV pre. 200wpc@4ohms.

[Aadams]

It looks like the current crop of mid to high AV receivers are rated for  4ohms on the front speakers.  I have a 5.0 system that is not used for music listening .  If I were to double duty as you want to do I  would prioritize the music and use the AV  pre outs to a stereo power amp such as  a Crown xls and use the AV speaker outs as fronts for the video.

Adams

[newandold]

On 2/25/2019 at 3:14 PM, gcrimmins said:

I have a pair of AR91s, and just bought a pair of AR90s which will replace them once I do a little work on them. I have to use the same system for listening to music and watching TV and movies. I'm just looking for some tips on how to best do this with these speakers. I can see a couple of options for setting things up, but I'm not sure which is the best choice.

1. Use the AR speakers full range with no subwoofer.

2. Use the AR speakers with bass management so that everything below 80hz (or whatever is the best frequency) goes to the subwoofer.

3. Use the AR speakers full range and send just the low-frequency effects from TV and movies to a subwoofer.

4. Do #1 for music and #2 for TV and movies. 

I have two more related questions.

First, do you think using the AVR receiver for music is a good choice, or is it better to use a separate stereo pre-amp for music?

Second, are there any AVR receivers capable or driving a pair of AR91 or AR90 speakers, or will I need a power amplifier for the front pair of speakers? 

I'm on a pretty tight budget for this, but also want to work toward setting things up in a way that will sound best and not strain the speakers or amplifier. Any thoughts? 

--Geoff 

I would go with 80hz and TRY the “small” settings on all the speakers. A high quality subwoofer that is a nice acoustic match for the AR, like HSU, SVS or Velodyne (as examples, ) will still allow all of those high quality mids and tweets to deliver the goods. You save on amplifier power and protect those valuable older AR woofers from excessive LFE.

 I’ve been doing this for 18 years with the Allison’s, which have very similar power handling/requirements and it’s real sweet.

 

Bill

[genek]

I find the LFE annoying, so my pre is set to send the LFE to a subwoofer. I just don't have a subwoofer.

[newandold]

8 hours ago, genek said:

I find the LFE annoying, so my pre is set to send the LFE to a subwoofer. I just don't have a subwoofer.

Well then, you would HATE what’s going on in my living room!

You reminded me of when I was still living at home and my gear was in the basement, and my Dad’s easy chair was right above me on the main floor.

When the bass got cranking, so did his foot to the floor pounding the “turn it down” signal.

 

Bill

[AR55]

Most Yamaha receivers can be set up to handle speakers with 4 ohm loads.  That said, the Yamaha receiver (an older RX-V3900) used as part of my great room system does not power my main left-right, AR-9Lsi (4 ohm) speakers.  I actually never intended to use the receiver to power the 9Lsi's, since I already had an exceptional McIntosh MC 7270 stereo amp.  I did at one point, however, hook the 9Lsi's up to Yamaha to see how the receiver would perform powering all 6 speakers (5 of them 4 ohm).  It never shut down with the 9Lsi's in the system, but it did run quite hot.  It still runs warm, when powering just the 98Lsi (4 ohm) center and surround speakers and AR-8bxi (8 ohm) "presence" speakers, but it is no danger of overheating.  The system also has a powered Velodyne subwoofer. 

I actually have a another system with AR-11, 14 & 15 speakers + Velodyne subwoofer in former bedroom that is now devoted to home theater, so this system is primary used to listen to music.  Sometimes I will use Yamaha's "The Roxy Theatre" surround music mode, but most of the time its used for stereo listening.  A pair of 9Lsi's can nicely fill a room with music all by themselves.  

I have a friend that uses a Denon receiver in his surround system.  His main left-right speakers are 4 ohm, AR-TSW 910s (yes, I brought him into AR fold).   He managed to kick-in the receiver's thermal protection circuits early on and it shut down.  He now also uses a separate stereo amp to power the 910's and the receiver handles the other speakers.  In the receiver's defense, he pays his system VERY loud.  I'm amazed that he hasn't lost his hearing.

Another friend has a newer mid-level Yamaha receiver (not an Adventage) with a combination of 8 ohm and 4 ohm speakers and is not having any problems.  His room is only about 14'x16'. 

A lot of it comes down to how loud you play your system and the size of your room.  The great room that my 9Lsi's are in is 17'x24' and my 2-person home theater room is only 12'x14'.  The 4 ohm, AR-11 mains in the home theater room seldom require more power than 25 watts even with action adventure movies.

[AR surround]

On 2/25/2019 at 3:14 PM, gcrimmins said:

...Second, are there any AVR receivers capable or driving a pair of AR91 or AR90 speakers, or will I need a power amplifier for the front pair of speakers? 

I'm on a pretty tight budget for this, but also want to work toward setting things up in a way that will sound best and not strain the speakers or amplifier. Any thoughts? 

--Geoff 

Geoff,

My two cents:  I'm using an AV receiver (Lexicon RV8) circa 2006 that is rated down to 2 ohms and capable of outputting its full rated power per channel with all channels driven.   The thing is a beast and then some.   You can probably get away with using the AR90's as fronts and some smaller 8 ohm jobs for the center and surrounds if you have a receiver that will handle 4 ohms for the fronts with all channels driven.    (AR55 mentioned the mid-level Yamaha.)  However, you will notice compression as the output of many AVRs is substantially curtailed with all channels driven when you've got power hungry beasts like the AR90's in the equation.

Piggybacking on what Aadams said:   One thing I successfully did before getting the Lexicon receiver was to use the AVR to power 6 to 8 ohm centers and the surrounds but had a separate power amp for the AR9's which are my front speakers.   You might find a nice vintage Yamaha power amp in the secondary market that will handle the AR90's very nicely.

[gcrimmins]

I appreciate all of the comments on this. While it sounds like there are a few ARVs that could handle the AR90s well, it would probably sound best to use a power amp on the front channels, or send the bass to a subwoofer.  Right now I have an old Marantz SR7000 AVR that is only rated for 8 ohms, but I am not opposed to replacing it if need be. If I decided to go with a power amplifier, I did come across two Adcoms in my area. There is a very nice GFA 5400 (2 channel, 200w into 4 ohms) with a GTP for $330, but it would be a bit of a drive to pick it up. It was part of the seller's bedroom system, and just wasn't being used much. There is a GFA 7500 very close to me for $150. (5 channel, 225w into 4 ohms, THX certified) It's a little rough looking with some skuffs on the case from moving it, and it's been sitting unused for a few years. Would either of these be a good choice for use with the Ar90s? 

 

[Aadams]

Both would work.  You could also get a new crown or qsc with more power for less money and a 5 year warranty.

[JKent]

2 hours ago, gcrimmins said:

Would either of these be a good choice for use with the Ar90s? 

Well, that depends on what you've decided about the rear channels. If you are sticking with 2-channel stereo, the GFA 5400/GTP should work well. But if you decide to use surround speakers I think the GFA 7500 makes sense but of course you'll need a surround processor/preamp.

FWIW, my HT has 4 ohm Cizek KA-1s as front speakers. I'm also using front wide, front high, side, rear, center and sub speakers (sub is powered). All of those surrounds are 8 ohm. My receiver is an Onkyo TX-NR1008. It is rated "9ch x 180 watt @ 6 ohms." The specs also say "Speaker Impedance: 4 or 6 ohm - 16 ohm." I contacted Onkyo support and they told me the 4 ohm front speakers do not present a problem but I plan to add an external amp for the fronts "one of these days."

So to answer your original question;

On 2/25/2019 at 3:14 PM, gcrimmins said:

are there any AVR receivers capable or driving a pair of AR91 or AR90 speakers

I think there are probably some Onkyos that would fill the bill.

-Kent

[genek]

I wonder how many people actually use the FM part of a receiver. I can't remember the last time I even connected an antenna to one.

[ligs]

7 hours ago, genek said:

I wonder how many people actually use the FM part of a receiver. I can't remember the last time I even connected an antenna to one.

I listened to NPR all the time using my Yamaha receiver, news during the day and classical music in the night. 

[ra.ra]

10 hours ago, genek said:

I wonder how many people actually use the FM part of a receiver.

With FM receivers in four different rooms (....OK, one is actually a tuner separate), at least one of these set-ups is in extended use every day. 

[genek]

I still use the FM radio in my car (two presets, my local NPR and a classical station). At home, TuneIn on the Roku has pretty much obsoleted my tuners. 

[lARrybody]

With all the streaming services I rarely use the FM in the cars or home theater setup. I do use the FM on my vinyl playing setup. Today I turned it on and noticed it was a hip hop station, not my regular. Then I remembered my 2 1/2 year old grandson was over a couple of day ago.

[ligs]

3 hours ago, ra.ra said:

With FM receivers in four different rooms (....OK, one is actually a tuner separate), at least one of these set-ups is in extended use every day. 

I have FM receivers in three of my rooms. At times I had two turned to the same station at the request of my wife because she was moving around the house. Actually the speakers I built or modified have to sound decent playing FM program, especially no sibilance in voices and no listening fatigue.

[Aadams]

Soft hijack or thread creep?

[genek]

Let's see where it goes. I might split it off into other speakers/electronics.