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200003 12 "woofer needs spyder


Giorgio AR

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I'm looking for the spyder for a 200003 12 "woofer which suffered an abuse of power that caused the coil holder to spill deforming the aluminum support and torn and deformed the spyder !!
I have straightened the aluminum thanks to a turned aluminum block having the same internal diameter of the coil support and I miss the spyder to reassemble the speaker.
I found a US supplier that had in the catalog until recently the correct spyder (with 6 waves and same measures as the original woofer), but now offers a high price for me a complete kit: spyder, coil, cables, foam and paper cone, below I publish the address where I found the kit (at the time, if I'm not mistaken the spyder was $ 7.75 !!).

Here below the kit offered for the 12 "AR woofers, note the spyder with the same look as the original

https://reconingspeakers.com/product/ar-11-aftermarket-diy-recone-kit/


I just want to replace the spyder, can someone help me find it?

The coil, even if the appearance is blackened is OK and measured, the resistance value is 2.6 ohms, I publish the photos before the restoration of the aluminum support

bobina 1.jpg

 

bobina 3.jpg

 

bobina 5.jpg

bobina 6.jpg

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I give you credit for trying to fix that woofer!

But the coils have moved up on the former probably as a result of being bashed into the 

back plate; there should only be about 1/16" or less of metal former "behind" the windings.

That coil has gotten so hot that the wire insulation is charred.  I had a few woofers that were

charred like that and then eventually shorted, probably when the windings contacted each other.

You really need a new voice

coil but I'm not sure where to get the correct one these days.  I would not use a non-metalic

type because it really helps the thermal performance/power handling of the woofer.

I posted pictures of a 200003 woofer voice coil with very minor damage here in the past but

they were lost during one of the site updates.  I'll try to find the files.

Here are a few old threads about this woofer:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/1408-ar-11-woofer-200003-measurement-refoam-repair/

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/1147-evolution-of-and-replacements-for-the-ar-1112-woofer/

I just found this thread that I had not noticed before:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/679-differences-in-the-ar-12-inch-woofer/

 

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1 hour ago, Pete B said:

I give you credit for trying to fix that woofer!

But the coils have moved up on the former probably as a result of being bashed into the 

back plate; there should only be about 1/16" or less of metal former "behind" the windings.

That coil has gotten so hot that the wire insulation is charred.  I had a few woofers that were

charred like that and then eventually shorted, probably when the windings contacted each other.

You really need a new voice

coil but I'm not sure where to get the correct one these days.  I would not use a non-metalic

type because it really helps the thermal performance/power handling of the woofer.

I posted pictures of a 200003 woofer voice coil with very minor damage here in the past but

they were lost during one of the site updates.  I'll try to find the files.

Here are a few old threads about this woofer:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/1408-ar-11-woofer-200003-measurement-refoam-repair/

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/1147-evolution-of-and-replacements-for-the-ar-1112-woofer/

I just found this thread that I had not noticed before:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/679-differences-in-the-ar-12-inch-woofer/

 

Thanks Pete, this is a challenge and a long-term attempt, the wires of the coil that have moved will be straightened and I will eliminate a couple of mm. of the lower support of aluminum (from what I perceive the lower edge of the former had a curve to reinforce it, not possible to restore due to lack of material) to avoid interference in the coil sliding, after the straightening of the former of the coil, it moves with just freedom in its headquarters.
It remains to restore the insulation of the vires, without touching the winding, it is an attempt, I think to clean only the outside and then paint the outside again with appropriate epoxy treatment to consolidate the coil itself.
Pete, I hope you understood that in this case the coil did not hit the magnet (maybe even this one), but it came out above, I can not imagine the amount of power it received to make this happen
I'd like to bring the woofer back as done by AR.
Otherwise it will be good to replace with a new non-original coil, always keeping the AR cone.

Giorgio

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The former is straight - no bend or curve.  On the other hand I do bend them in the direction of the

coils when I do a repair like this.

You are obviously capable of a very detailed repair, I would purchase the correct magnet wire and

wind a new VC on aluminum.  I've done it before for other woofers and it is easier than you might 

think.  I use high temp epoxy to hold down the windings - lately I've used slow drying JB Weld 

since it is very high temp and available locally.

Small sheets of thin aluminum are available at hobby stores in different thicknesses, not sure what

the original was or the wire gauge.

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I would say that your woofer was overdriven such that it smashed into the backplate

and then went forward to hang on the top of the pole piece.  I had one do the same 

thing but it was not charred.

Here is a Small Advent woofer that I repaired, where the small amount of former that

hits the back plate when overdriven folded inward so that it hit the pole piece.  I folded

it in the other direction up toward the windings where there it is then closer to the 

center of the gap.  The first picture in this thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/small-advent-woofer-repair-some-measurements.819443/

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10 hours ago, Pete B said:

I would say that your woofer was overdriven such that it smashed into the backplate

and then went forward to hang on the top of the pole piece.  I had one do the same 

thing but it was not charred.

Here is a Small Advent woofer that I repaired, where the small amount of former that

hits the back plate when overdriven folded inward so that it hit the pole piece.  I folded

it in the other direction up toward the windings where there it is then closer to the 

center of the gap.  The first picture in this thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/small-advent-woofer-repair-some-measurements.819443/

Pete thank you ,great report, and impeccable technical explanations, congratulations to you and thanks to the knowledge made available to us enthusiasts,  I do not have knowledge of electronics, but I have good manual skills and inventiveness, you're right that here is better to build a new coil on former aluminum of adequate thickness that try to repair something without guarantee of success, it remains the problem of finding the spyder closer to the original of the AR. With my work time, the repair of the woofer will be slow, but it is my desire to this woofer in good operational functioning .

Giorgio

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Here are some spiders, US source, sorry. They are indeed hard for the consumer to find
separate from reconing kits. Voice coils are also available. But they provide almost no
specs.

Good chance you'll have to cut the inner hole to size.

The challenge is likely to be matching relative stiffness of the original.

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  • 2 months later...

It seems that Roy and Carl used MWA 6" 6004-B spiders for woofer repairs,

they also mention replacement voice coils of 2.5 and 3.5 ohms, I'd only use

the 2.5 ohm version:   http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/7520-ar91-repair-story-new-mids-and-tweeters-identified/&do=findComment&comment=95206

They also seem to mention that the replacement voice coils have metallic formers which is good.

I'd like a part number for the 2.5 ohm DCR voice coil on a metal former if anyone has it.

I have a 6004-B and it _seems_ to be too stiff - might try it.

 

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I agree with Pete. You need a new voice coil.

That voice coil will get caught in the magnet gap. I have a VC from an 8" AR woofer that bottomed out and has less damage than yours. It would get caught and eventually the magnet wire dislodged and jammed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the advice and experiences told, I checked the woofer again and in fact, the only good thing is the cone and the metal basket, on the link below you could probably find the coil and the spider (they also sell the complete reconing kit , but they also have all the separate components) and it seems to me that the spider was for sale some time ago!

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