Steve Gifford Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Last week, I had an older gentleman at church who knew I liked tinkering ask if I wanted some old speakers he had in the back of his truck and was about to drop off at Goodwill. The speakers are both AR-3's, serial numbers C 21604 and C 21611. On both of the speakers, the woofers work when power is connected to the rear terminals but no mid-range or tweeter. If I connect power directly to the bare wires going to the mid-ranges and tweeters on the front of the cabinet, both mids work and one of the tweeters. The cabinets are pretty scratched up but could be cleaned up and both grills are present but the fabric looks darker to me than others I have seen online. My question is, are these worth restoring? I do not have any need for them but after researching them a bit understand that they can be somewhat valuable if restored properly. I have seen the AR3a restoration guide and am thinking about trying to follow along and restore them myself. I do fairly well with mechanical things but have never tried anything electronic. I am sure you see posts like this all of the time but I am new to this and would welcome an opinion from someone who has been down this road before. Thanks! Steve Gifford Oxford, OH USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hello Steve, and welcome to this forum. You are about to get yourself a pair of very desirable (and historic) loudspeakers - - - which look great, by the way (except for that fuzzy grille cloth )- - - and it sounds to me like you have the exact right spirit to tackle this project. Many others will chime in here with explicit instructions, but first read up, proceed slowly, and you will get all the help you need here to be able to restore and enjoy these classic speakers. (P.S. ....last time I was in Oxford was about 1973 when they still served 3.2% beer in OH) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hey Steve! I'll send you my address to ship them to me and to save you the time and effort! I don't mind dusty old speakers! Yankin yer chain! These are worth restoring. One of the best ever vintage 3 way speakers. In my opinion they are better than the 3as, and I've restored several sets of both and compared them. The dead mids and tweeters are most likely due to corrosion in the pots. Try turning both knobs back and forth, a lot while listening to them. You may find a sweet spot allowing the signal to go throug to the driver. Read through the AR-3a restoration guide. There's great information regarding the pots, cleaning them, and replacements if the originals are not usable after cleaning and inspection. Another issue can be out of spec caps. Usually a recap will help bring back the tweeters performance. Another area to check is the mids output. I thought mine sounded fine until I had Roy C. rebuild mine. The improvement in output was astounding. The problem is the flexable sealer around the base of the domes hardens with age, severely limiting mid dome movement, greatly reducing output. Cabs can be lightly block sanded, and freshened up with some Watcos Danidh natural color oil. Great stuff, use it on all my restorations. Q-Components is a Canadian company that sells the Saran material that is almost an exact match to the original grill fabric. These are valuable speakers and will reward you with excellent sound once restored. The investment restoring them is worth every penny. If you get a chance, read through my thread, Stopped for toilet paper, found a pair of AR3's thread. Lots of pics and helpful info. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Hi Steve...Akron native here...:) I see you had enough knowledge to try the drivers with the terminal plate in front...so tells ya the pots are in need of cleaning or replaced. Tweeters you can buy on EBay. This is a tough speaker to do if your first time but doable. Their value is $1500 range and up.....but to get that...have to be sold on EBay...as they go overseas. The woofers will probably need reglued around basket and half the time...the spider needs reglued also. The mids will need Roy's magic on them to work properly. Capacitors will need replaced. Grill material is not OEM on yours so needs replaced....and it's a pain to do on that plastic grill. Badges...( a 3 and AR logo) are missing so finding those is tough. You can easily have $200-$500 in them to bring up to snuff. I am working on two pairs now....and both have their issues. Good luck. Also..Roy is the expert here for any questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 I believe CSP member chris1this1 can repair the AR3 tweeters. There's posts around here about the service. But, Chris can be reached through eBay too. CHRIS1THIS1 Chris is repairing AR9 series tweeters now as well. Or at least, refurbed tweeters are for sale, already repaired, on eBay. I'm curious as to how they sound, as the dome looks slightly different than original. r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arken Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Steve, Thought id put things in prospective for you. I paid 1400.00 for what you have there and my midranges are no good ! So yes, I would say you have some keepers there. The drivers all look great . You can buy the correct material for the grills. Great snag! ARKEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 21 hours ago, Stimpy said: I believe CSP member chris1this1 can repair the AR3 tweeters. There's posts around here about the service. But, Chris can be reached through eBay too. CHRIS1THIS1 Chris is repairing AR9 series tweeters now as well. Or at least, refurbed tweeters are for sale, already repaired, on eBay. I'm curious as to how they sound, as the dome looks slightly different than original. Well, that's interesting. In all honesty, I don't think I've ever seen a bad AR-9 series tweeter - damaged, yes, but never a cooked one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ar_pro said: Well, that's interesting. In all honesty, I don't think I've ever seen a bad AR-9 series tweeter - damaged, yes, but never a cooked one. That's good to hear. I've never abused my AR tweeters, though I have wondered if the ferrofluid holds up long term, without needing to be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 23 hours ago, Stimpy said: That's good to hear. I've never abused my AR tweeters, though I have wondered if the ferrofluid holds up long term, without needing to be replaced? I haven't noticed any ferrofluid issue with these guys, they seem to be very robust, with a reliable, uniform output. I think it's my favorite AR tweeter. In normal hi-fi use, they appear to hold up just fine, but I wouldn't be brave enough to use them in a home theater set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gifford Posted August 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Thank you all for the encouragement and info! I have been looking through all of your comments and reading more of the restoration guide and I think I am going to give it a try. Several of the things I will have to check or do will be new to me but I enjoy learning new things and it sounds like this forum is a wealth of information and good people willing to help if I get stuck. The first thing I realized is I need more power! When I initially tested them I was just using the only thing I have which is a fairly new Yamaha A/V receiver. It is an 8 ohm receiver and does not have the option or ability to properly power a 4 Ohm speaker. The great news though is that I had contacted my older cousin who used to be a sales rep for Bose and just retired from a marine audio engineering and development company he started and owned for decades. He mentioned that he is moving to a new house he just built and was cleaning out his basement and came across his old Bose 1801 power amp that he used to demo speakers for customers back in the 70's. He says he remembers that the AR-3s are very power hungry and that the tweeters were often blown by people over-driving them with an under-powered amp. He said it is in perfect condition and I could have it but I have to come pick it up (St. Louis) since it weighs in at 82lbs! I hope to go pick up the amp in the next 2-3 weeks at which point I will retest the speakers and start the restoration process. I am going to try and keep everything as original as possible so I'll clean or fix what I can and replace with vintage when possible. Thanks again for all the input and encouragement! Steve p.s. - I attached a link to a .pdf of the Bose 1081 for those interested in checking it out. Bose_1801_Power_Amplifier.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 17, 2018 Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Steve Gifford said: He said it is in perfect condition and I could have it Wow Steve! Fantastic speakers and a super high power amp! With your luck maybe you should play the lottery ? Good luck with all this and keep us posted. One suggestion: The Bose has been sitting in a basement for years. I strongly recommend having a qualified technician check it out before using it. Give the tech the Service Bulletins. Replacing a few parts (R2, R3, R11, R13, maybe some other parts) is cheap insurance! Once you have the Bose and the ARs up and running that will be one fantastic system! Don't know if your Yammy has a pre-out so you can use it with the Bose but if not maybe consider buying a Made-in-the-USA preamp for a classic all-American system. I have 2 classic vintage American systems--one uses an Adcom preamp (Made in NJ) and the other a little-known but excellent DB Systems preamp (from NH). There are lots of other choices. -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gifford Posted August 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 8/13/2018 at 11:21 PM, GD70 said: Hey Steve! I'll send you my address to ship them to me and to save you the time and effort! I don't mind dusty old speakers! Yankin yer chain! These are worth restoring. One of the best ever vintage 3 way speakers. In my opinion they are better than the 3as, and I've restored several sets of both and compared them. The dead mids and tweeters are most likely due to corrosion in the pots. Try turning both knobs back and forth, a lot while listening to them. You may find a sweet spot allowing the signal to go throug to the driver. Read through the AR-3a restoration guide. There's great information regarding the pots, cleaning them, and replacements if the originals are not usable after cleaning and inspection. Another issue can be out of spec caps. Usually a recap will help bring back the tweeters performance. Another area to check is the mids output. I thought mine sounded fine until I had Roy C. rebuild mine. The improvement in output was astounding. The problem is the flexable sealer around the base of the domes hardens with age, severely limiting mid dome movement, greatly reducing output. Cabs can be lightly block sanded, and freshened up with some Watcos Danidh natural color oil. Great stuff, use it on all my restorations. Q-Components is a Canadian company that sells the Saran material that is almost an exact match to the original grill fabric. These are valuable speakers and will reward you with excellent sound once restored. The investment restoring them is worth every penny. If you get a chance, read through my thread, Stopped for toilet paper, found a pair of AR3's thread. Lots of pics and helpful info. Glenn Glenn, Thank you for the info and all of the documentation the the Stopped for TP post. I finally started on dismantling one of the speakers last week. As you suspected, both pots were heavily corroded and some of the material at the point where the tab touches the spring has dissolved. I did clean them up fairly well though, got some dielectric grease and they both make good contact and test well now. Pictures are attached. I also inspected the woofers and other than a few minor surface cracks on the damper, they seem like they are in really good shape. More pics are attached. The next step regarding "recapping" has me somewhat confused since I am fairly new to electronics. The restoration guide for the AR-3a talks about the capacitors and their values, however the AR-3's look significantly different inside so I am not sure what to do. I saw in one of your pictures that you had 3 capacitors bundled together but I am not sure what these replace (maybe the little tan box with the coil of wire on top?). If you could please give me some insight on how and what to test to see if mine need the same repair and if so some information on how to do it I would appreciate it a lot. Also, while I have you, how do I know if I need to have any work done on the midrange or tweeter? They both look and sound good but I have nothing to compare them to. Thanks for the advice! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 Nice job cleaning those old atena pollack potentometers up, but looking at them you might want to consider replacing them with something different. I recently purchased a set of these and although I have not used them yet they seem very well built. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AR-3-AR-3a-AR-2-AR-2ax-AR-4-AR-4x-AR-5-wirewound-potentiometer-pot/163074984077?hash=item25f806c88d:g:mF0AAOSw4eJbEGaU The potentiometer to he left is a Ohmite RHS15R and is a perfect replacement. Two problems with the Ohmites (1) They are expensive a around $50.00 each.(2) They will need some kind of enclosure to keep the fiberglass fibers out. The Potentiometers purchased off the auction site are enclosed and test out right on the money. You can go ahead and try the originals, but you will be asking for problems not too far down the road. You have the makings of some really desirable vintage speakers. The AR3 is actually on display at the Smithsonian as it was a major advance in speaker design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Gifford Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Thank you for the feedback and the link to the pots on eBay. I read all the information and understand now why it may be better to replace them. I ordered four of the eBay ones and will use them but willl hang on to the old ones in case somebody ever once all the original parts. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 On August 25, 2018 at 6:03 PM, Steve Gifford said: Glenn, Thank you for the info and all of the documentation the the Stopped for TP post. I finally started on dismantling one of the speakers last week. As you suspected, both pots were heavily corroded and some of the material at the point where the tab touches the spring has dissolved. I did clean them up fairly well though, got some dielectric grease and they both make good contact and test well now. Pictures are attached. I also inspected the woofers and other than a few minor surface cracks on the damper, they seem like they are in really good shape. More pics are attached. The next step regarding "recapping" has me somewhat confused since I am fairly new to electronics. The restoration guide for the AR-3a talks about the capacitors and their values, however the AR-3's look significantly different inside so I am not sure what to do. I saw in one of your pictures that you had 3 capacitors bundled together but I am not sure what these replace (maybe the little tan box with the coil of wire on top?). If you could please give me some insight on how and what to test to see if mine need the same repair and if so some information on how to do it I would appreciate it a lot. Also, while I have you, how do I know if I need to have any work done on the midrange or tweeter? They both look and sound good but I have nothing to compare them to. Thanks for the advice! Steve Hi Steve, The three bundled caps replace the wax block caps, a 6uf and 24uf. I used 2 12 UF caps combined to make the 24uf value. The 24 & 6 UF caps connect at one end, but not the other. If you look closely at the photo with the two pots in the vice, you can see a diagram showing the cap layout regarding the connections. Follow the original block cap wiring. It usually has the cap value and wire color connection printed on the block. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 While you have the woofers out, carefully check the Masonite rings the surrounds are glued to and make sure they are not separating from the basket. This is fairly common and can damage the woofer VC if it becomes loose while playing, allowing the cone to go out of alignment. The woofers are very expensive to replace, and can be difficult to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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