TheFrugalAudiophile

For those of us with no engineering expertise, it's tough to follow. The question is, how does it sound? Natural, musical, etc. Well, at least that's my two cents.

Thanks, Pete, this explains a great deal. The Human Speaker 21st Century version of the EPI has no such level control so for that reason I'd avoid it. I see mostly engineer background on this site and I have none but I wonder if you check my comment on the Dynaco restoration whether you agree with Holt's remarks as a listener. Do you listen to Classic Speakers at home and what are you using? Here's the link: https://www.stereophile.com/content/whos-right-acccuracy-or-musicality

Pete, I think we're coming at this from two different perspectives. You're speaking with an engineering background and I'm just a listener. The Emotiva 7.1 processor did in fact in its EMO-EQ process make some adjustments in the areas (the drop at 1 KHZ, the crossover point) but I prefer manual EQ with less aggressive treble than the Emotiva's evaluation. There is more to human listening than adjusting to artificial, digital test tones. I found this article accidentally by J. Gordon Holt. Has anyone here ever heard of the speaker he mentions? The Fulton Musical Industries J speakers? https://www.stereophile.com/content/whos-right-acccuracy-or-musicality In this respect I agree with him: I tend to like reproduced sound that to me is more "natural" and while I've never heard the Fulton with its huge cone tweeters to agree they're "better" than the A25s, since Holt recorded live music, is well respected, etc. his remarks are worth considering, but just as with the ELACs, I might not like how they sound in the acoustics of my room (were I to ever hear them and not doing this for a living it's unlikely I ever will) all the same. In his review at this link, he compares them to the A25 and states why he thinks they're better. He publishes a frequency response curve of both speakers. There is the A25 dip you talk about and an elevation. I don't find my A25s bright; again, the Elac B6 2.0 (whatever) on paper had better stats than the A25, but far less "air", detail, transparency and musical realism to me. Has anyone here heard the modern speakers? Interestingly, SEAS fabricated I think cabinets for the ELAC Vela speaker that use a "Heil" or AMT tweeter, while the tweeters are made in Germany. Here's the article: https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/0973fulton/index.html An excerpt: At any rate, if anyone is interested or alive out there, please share your thoughts, especially if you've heard the Fultons. For what its worth, yes, I use subwoofers, a VMPS Smaller subwoofer with its Dayton Audio original driver replaced by a ScanSpeak 12 inch unit and Sunfire Subwoofers; so I do know what a strong 30 HZ tone sounds like but I have heard (it could be because they are on a bookshelf near a brick wall) credible lower bass from the A25s years ago using a recording of Zarathustra that was known to go (on the LP) to 30Hz; it was audible not really distorted, nothing like the Sunfire. I've heard real (small) pipe organs that are weaker than the better recordings bass output! Oh, and I posted today on a new Dolby recording technology on my blog. Please comment below or on my blog if you have thoughts. https://thefrugalaudiophile.blogspot.com/2020/02/will-dolby-atmos-music-revolutionize.html

Hello, Pete, Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I don't have your technical expertise and don't disagree with your assessments. I'd be curious as to your take on the more current speakers, if you have heard them. Theoretically, the Elac B6 etc. that I didn't like measures better than the Dynaco for highs, etc. but I found their "musicality" far inferior. Andrew Jones (maybe my room, maybe not) seems to favor a sound that clearly appears "hollow", even his Pioneer Atmos has it. Of all things, I think the Dayton (after I returned the Elacs to Amazon) does a much more musical, realistic job on voices than the Elac; I use as the height speakers. Do you get to listen to new units? The nice thing about inexpensive speakers the cost of a reasonable dinner is that one can have fun. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-mk402x-4-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-pair--300-465 The high pressure sales of Fred Locke Stereo (I note someone here bought an AR 2AX though they were "pushing" another product) was a turn off; online sales is pretty nice, great support from Emotiva so far. My point about Locke is they pushed the "Heil" what was it ESS and it sounded bright and terrible to me. Have you experienced the "Heil" or AMT Tweeter and do you have thoughts? They pushed EPI but comparing that to the A25 it could be equalized to sound as bright, but again, more detail in music. They plugged an A25 into an Equalized Electrovoice unit, said it was the EPI and when I pointed out it was a Dyna they all but threw me out of the store (this was decades ago, most East Coast dealers were sadly Audio Ferengi) and so what, RIA is equalized; there's a lot of B.S. in high end, hype, etc. Again, Dyna A10s with SEAS 1.5 do so much better on vocals than the hyped Elacs; Steve the "Audiophillia" Guttenberg is eccentric but his test CD is great. But he loves the Elacs. https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demonstration-Disc-Critical-Listening/dp/B019GRAD0E I don't know if your analysis agrees with Holt's take that I cited in my blog, he's less critical than you; I was able to obtain useful bass though not high subwoofer quality strength down to 30HZ. They just do a wonderful job on voice. https://thefrugalaudiophile.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-dynaco-a25-my-first-high-quality.html Here's a link to the A26; pricey for me: http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=475:seas-a26-kit&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=365 https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/seas-a26-10-2-way-kit-pair-based-on-the-classic-a25/ My A25s don't take much EQ per my Emotiva UMC-200 analysis; the quality of the recording matters. I wonder if there can be measurable "resolution" beyond frequency response, i.e. the amount of data produced; there was far more detail and vocal information in the A25 and even the Panda bear Chinese Dayton than the Elacs. I think the price now is too expensive unless you buy and return back to Amazon. I hadn't planned to return but I'm a voice in the wilderness with my opinions. I wrote about the A26, perhaps those are worthy of consideration in 2020. And the Emotiva did in fact see your dip and make a small adjustment but I use my own curve; some of Emo-Q's settings were just crazy. I agree about the XLs, they are the rear speakers in my set up but their original tweeters that rang and blew up were replaced with Vifas that were made not as now in China but in somewhere in the Norse countries, like ScanSpeak. Sound like the A25s but a little better dispersion, really not a great difference with movies, music, etc. Electronics now are much better. I had nothing but problems with Sony and later Carver units; the Emotivas are great for the money. A guy who fixes even multi-thousand units is skeptical of all the hype. I wonder your thoughts here (the Frugal Audiophile who turns up on search engines; you can't find me) about Mr. Rappaport's thoughts, if you have time? He praises Hafler, and I agree. I wish I used the Dyna Stereo 70 amps instead of my problematic Sony integrated. Moved on to Carver, "flat" sound, not much detail. Over forty years later, the A25s are really shining. https://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/the-frugal-audiophile/ Thanks, Pete and keep up the great work. Let me know your thoughts on modern speakers. By the way SEAS fabricated some of ELAC's pricey "Vela" AMT Jet tweeter (cabinets, drivers were made in Germany).

In addition, SEAS makes this A26, available on Madisound. The two-way 6 inch market is over-saturated, but I hope they consider a two-way eight inch model. http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=475:seas-a26-kit&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=365 People who have built them (reviews on Madisound) do like them. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/seas-a26-10-2-way-kit-pair-based-on-the-classic-a25/ I've attached the brochure from SEAS. One review states: SEAS_A26_AppNote.pdf

Of course, epinions on this date 01/23/2020 is dead but since it's not political, thank heavens the WayBack Machine preserved it: https://web.archive.org/web/20080719111926/http://www99.epinions.com/content_278745878148 My own opinion is that oftentimes they do a better job on vocals than the A25, given the smaller size and dispersion characteristics. More similarities than differences. I'm using two as dual mono for the center channel in my home theater; and two with Vifva one inch domes (Scandanavian made, Scanspeak makes a model) tweeters with a more extended high end than the original SEAS, but very difficult to tell the difference with one side by side with the classic A10 (mint condition from Canada too!) with a Sunfire Super Junior handling the lows for my smaller living room TV setup. Great speakers.

OK, thanks for your reply Martin to the Poodle. To me, the characteristics were different, perhaps Dynaco tried to compete with EPI with the A25XL which never took off and the company, acquired by Tyco conglomerate, of course died. See my comment to Pete on the 21st iterations of Dynaco and EPI. If you've heard them, let me know.

Hello, again, have you heard Huw's Human speakers and what do you think? It's interesting, Pete, you enjoy/appreciate the classic Dynacos and the EPIs. Your thoughts on the differences? https://www.humanspeakers.com/human/81.htm A speaker designer for a high end firm was kind to reply to my questions via email: I'd appreciate your thoughts and if you've no issues, I'll use on my blog: https://thefrugalaudiophile.blogspot.com/ Thanks! You do great work, Pete. Congratulations. T.F.A.

Hello, Pete, I just joined the forum. I learn a great deal here and I'm not handy like you so I don't build but we have replaced tweeters in our Dynacos with one inch units by ScanSpeak and Vivfa. I see you like both the Dynaco A25 and EPI 100 classic loudspeakers; the EPI was always "brighter" to me and I hated the high pressure sales when I was younger and it was introduced; they had a wall with a switcher and made sure it sounded "better" than Dynacos, AR 2aX, Advents, etc. Tested at home, and with older electronics I didn't hear details like a harpsichord continuo in Bach, dispersion wasn't as good of highs to me as the A25, but much better sounding than most 21st century units. There are successor speakers out there, the SEAS A26 and the Human Speaker. Here are links: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/seas-a26-10-2-way-kit-pair-based-on-the-classic-a25/ https://www.humanspeakers.com/human/81.htm Will you be discussing on this site or are you mostly interested in restorations? Glad to see you're still active here on this forum and a longtime member! I've a blog here and I'm displeased with the much hyped B6 Elac (no offense if anyone hear likes it): https://thefrugalaudiophile.blogspot.com/ Thanks and best wishes, T.F.A.