samberger0357
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Posts posted by samberger0357
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On 12/11/2021 at 7:00 PM, Martin said:
As per the recommended stacking instructions included with early-1970s Dynaco loudspeakers, I have always achieved good results by stacking them horizontally rather than vertically, so that both woofers & both tweeters are fairly close together. A small towel placed between them sufficed.
I typically liked all of my smaller speakers horizontally stacked as well...AR3's, KLH Six's, Advent's.
Can't do that with this coupling however. The 3's are toed in dramatically to line up it's tweeter to the Allison One's. I've had them horizontally placed as well on top of the A1's, but this was suggested to me by somebody who's knowledge I trust, and I like how it sounds. Also makes it easier toget to the back of the 3's if I want to adjust the controls.
And yes, that is a Xmas tree on the left. Suffice to say we got tired of needles and water, and didn't want the standard fake tree.
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31 minutes ago, Aadams said:
Roy A. was a sly one. He knew that the ESW worked better on Allisons than on most other brands including AR.
Any Acoustic Suspension Speaker that could withstand the stress such as a Large Advent or AR3, 3a, also had a crossover so high into the midrange that phase or “doppler” distortion could become a problem. The Allison One, Two and Three had a low crossover of 350hz, low enough that such distortion could not be an issue.
An ESW combined with the 1000hz crossover of a Large Advent or AR3 would be a doppler distortion generator.
AR didn’t avoid phase distortion from amplified low bass frequencies until the AR9.
Well yeah, he designed it as an Allison product. But I've read about successful pairings with AR 3's(Tom Tyson for one)and between my 3's and A1's, the ESW has noticeably more effect on the former then the latter. That said, it is my understanding that the design in general has more impact with smaller boxes like the 3's, and the Allison Fours.
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Never heard of the Boom Box, but I'm interested in learning more.
David Moran, who I think is a member here but is a longtime member of the Allison Google group and who I acquired the ESW from, worked at DBX(was also a longtime music and audio gear writer for the Boston Phoenix and member of the Boston Audio Society) for a time. Perhaps I can get him to comment on this.
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On 12/19/2021 at 10:23 AM, Elliotfish said:
Thanks for the input. BTWforgot to mention: serial numbers on the 6s are: 28068 and 30510. Any idea what era these were built?
Those are pretty early, probably late year 2 or year 3.
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43 minutes ago, newandold said:
Yours are superior for a very important reason. The original outboard connections for the mid range and tweeters had been done away with And were then wired internally. By far that was the most significant improvement in those speakers.
Ah I'd forgotten about that. Good to know. Thanks.
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Very interesting stuff. I knew that the early One's didn't have a biamp option. If I ever get a chance to own a pair of those I will. And would I ever love to find a pair of IC20's. That search is never ending.
The biamp experiment is over, and I'm "just" using the MC2300 to power the A1's. They did fine with both amps, but in the end, simpler is better, as it usually is.
18 minutes ago, newandold said:When the ALLISON:One was introduced originally, The crossover network had a horizontal “slope switch” and no Biamping connection option. When the Biamping option appeared a few years later, I always felt (speculation only on my part), That it was not Roy’s decision, But rather taken under advisement from within the company in order to be competitive with other Loudspeakers operating on that level.
My IC20’s are biampable by means of a toggle switch instead of the jumpers. My goal was to completely avoid the Biamp option, and I did so by fashioning 1 foot jumpers, of #12 THHN. That takes the switch with its thin lead connection out of the loop. Each of the five channels of my Allison system, are receiving 405 watts rms@8ohm. Each of the systems is a nominal 6ohm load. The Velodyne HGS 18 Sub. continues to have the system respond down to 15HZ. Before Velodyne went out of business, the California-based company rebuilt and upgraded the class D plate amp. They are back by the way operating overseas and have expanded back to the USA. -
Your weather seems to match ours here in the San Francisco area. We were in the mid-30's this morning, with ample frost on our car as well. Certainly not cold by standards set in other parts of this country or other parts of the world, but for us it suffices.
Happy Holidays!
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You are the AR guy Giorgio!
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1 hour ago, newandold said:
The A1 crossover is a passive network.
No meaningful difference would come out of it unless you’re doing it to add power to the mix.
I understand that many prefer biamping with an active network,and consider passive biamping not really biamping at all, but since Roy Allison gave one the ability to utilize two amps with these speakers and the network in them, and I have two good amps which is why I'm experimenting.
As for meaningful difference, any difference that I'm able to hear is meaningful, and what I'm hearing certainly confirms that. I've tried horizontal biamping, which is using one amp for the lows and one for the mids/highs. And while my amps are not identical, they're pretty close and both have gain controls, so matching them is not very difficult. I'm now on to vertical biamping, IE giving each speaker a separate amp. Horizontal provides a little better balance, while vertical better separation. Both take advantage of each amp's strengths and while I admit there isn't significant difference using either method, or simply using one amp, it's easy enough for me to use both amps while I have them as opposed to just letting one sit unused. Optimally I would have an identical mate for either amp so that I can could run them in mono(although could even do that with both of these presently) I'm happy to be able to at least have speakers that allow me to utilize both of them while I have them.
In the end, horizontal biamp works better for my situation so that each woofer gets the benefits of the MC2300's grunt. The A1's sound fantastic this way, although, as I've indicated more then once, it's not a huge improvement over just using the 2300(my preferred amp) alone.
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Giving them a vertical biamp try now and once again, they sound quite excellent. I'm getting the feeling these are those kind of speakers where there isn't a lot that you can do for them(other then proper placement and even then you have a fair degree of flexibility) for them to sound less then excellent.
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57 minutes ago, newandold said:
Is that the latest with the AR’s removed?
They are great speakers, but the A1’s need no help!
Yes. I agree on both counts but always fun for me for a bit of harmless experimentation now and then to see how I might change around the sound and perhaps for my ears improve it. But no doubt I could live with one good amp and the A1’s as my last pieces of gear for as long as they would hold up.
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1 hour ago, lakecat said:
Wow!...never heard of this. I have the McIntosh 2205 with the MX-117 pre with the equalizer slightly adjusted for more bass for my AR3's. Both units are recapped and the bass has always been there in spades so can't imagine needing more.
What does this unit do to the woofers? Would this be extra hard on them? Says it would damage vented cabs...so what am I missing?
I’m with you. More bottom is not something 3’s in proper shape should be lacking, and mine aren’t. But since the ESW is in the house and since RA specifically noted it could be used with speakers outside of the Allison stable I thought I’d give it a try.
And yes using overdoing it with it in the mix by not being moderate with one’s volume could result in a problem but I think if used correctly one can see some additional benefit without harm. The AR3 woofer is a fairly hearty driver, as are the Allison One woofers and while using an external sub is probably a better idea if one is really concerned about possible long term consequences I’m confident that my use of the ESW along with my conservative approach with the volume is not going to result in any dire consequences.Famous last words I know…
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3 hours ago, Giorgio AR said:
Gorgeous item !! I want it ... after having seen the thread and reading the specifications of "The Electronic Subwoofer" I am convinced of the advantage and help of this beautiful project of Roy Allison.
Sam let us know how much difference you will find in the low range of your AR3a after testing it together with the splendid Mc2300, returned to your home in great shape!Giorgio it’s 3’s, not 3a’s that I own.
The low range is very positively enhanced by a big amp like the 2300, and the ESW while by no means necessary really does add an extra layer of bottom much in the way an external sub might, or perhaps an equalizer which in essence is what the ESW is.
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On 11/5/2021 at 4:27 PM, newandold said:
Those are the later versions of the A1. Biampable (though unnecessary)
Just thought I'd add that while I completely agree with this statement, they sure do sound great biamped with a McIntosh MC2120 on the mid/highs, and a MC2300 on the bottom. Both amps have gain controls, and the 2120 has switchable input sensitivity so that I can get it down to .75v which is close to the 2300's .50v .
Happy holidays everyone!
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10 minutes ago, ar_pro said:
That's a very cool system, Sam. I've always wondered what an AR-3/3a/LST would be like with the Allison ESL.
When I had a bi-amped AR-9 setup, I used an Audio Control low-frequency EQ limited to the woofers, which gave some great results.
Wow would've loved to hear that set up.
The ESL is much more impactful with the 3's then the Allison One's, which is I had heard when I acquired it. Works better, or is at least more noticeable with the smaller Allison speakers and speakers like the 3.
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A quick comment.
After a short period(seemed more like an eternity, though) without my beloved 3's and MC2300 because of both being on the disabled list, they are now back in full glory and together they seem joined at the hip. I'm sure there are greater combo's(hell, my Allison One's with the 2300 gives me the chills) but there is something indescribably wonderful about how this amp, with it's brutish 300 watt power, yet THAT tone that 1st generation solid state Mac's seem to have, swing with each other. And when I add this marvelous little Electronic Sub Woofer that Roy Allison developed to go with not only his line of speakers, but all "closed box systems of high quality, with woofers of appreciable size and linear long-excursion capability"(from the manual) it wrings out every last ounce of greatness that the 3 has in it. Truly great stuff.
Wishing everybody in the CSP community a healthy, happy holiday season and 2022.
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6 hours ago, ar_pro said:
The hum might be a power supply issue, Sam...is it in both channels?
I'm not sure what the life expectancy is for those large supply capacitors, but I'd suggest giving the folks at Audio Classics a call - they have extensive experience, and might be able to suggest a more local service solution, should you not want to send that monster to New York.
Several years back, my wife & I took a trip up to Binghamton with a Mac amp that was having a problem, and AC fixed it while we waited. They also set us up for a personal tour of the McIntosh factory, which was very exciting! They're great guys to work with.
Turned out it was being caused by my Allison Electronic Subwoofer, which I had connected between the amp and preamp. Whether it was too close to the amp, or the amp just didn't like being connected to it, or the IC"s, something was not copacetic between them. So it is now connected in the preamp's(McIntosh C11) tape loop and the hum is all but gone. I had a board fry several resistors a few weeks ago and just had that repaired so it sounds great, but it's never been the most quiet of all amps.
The amp had supposedly gone through restoration before I bought it, but I didn't have anything to prove that other then the seller's word and the description of what he did. I took a shot, and it performed very well for several months until the last issue. I bought my C11 from AC but this is one piece they won't be able to help me with. There's one local guy that has a good rep, but I would still have to schlep the amp to him. I got a fellow who has been repairing audio gear for several years to make a house call, and while he comes from an EE background, he's not a Mac expert. But he removed the board, brought it back to his place, replaced the burnt/bad parts, returned and installed. Obviously it would've been great to have an expert be able to get this thing on the bench and give it a complete overhaul but that's out of the picture. The next time(if there is one) it goes down I'll probably just sell it. I'm hoping that because it's a tank, and rugged as hell it will last for at least awhile more. I have a nice MC2120 that I bought locally that was worked on by Terry Dewick in 2014(I have the invoice) and I'm using that now to drive my AR3's, while the 2300 drives my Allison One's. And yes, the speakers are stacked and amps are used simultaneously. Damn nice sound.
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Yes that's the problem with techs. The old one's are slowly leaving us, and there's very few younger folks who are interested in doing this kind of work. Lots of folks know how to do it, but few that do it for a trade. And who can blame them as it's long, involved work and with not much demand. Although the demand is growing as there has been growing interest in vintage electronics for some time now and people paying a lot of money for classic pieces like the Mac gear you own.
My apologies for not knowing you owned so many great Mac pieces. Gorgeous!
Are you saying that the MC2105 doesn't have enough power for your AR10's? That would be surprising to me. While officially it's 105 watts, my understanding is that it's more like 150 watts when tested.
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Giorgio that Monrio is new to me but what terrific power it has! That must sound wonderful with the AR's.
I try to only obtain gear that I know has been updated by either somebody reputable either recently, or the recent past. I completely stay away from anything less(or try to...in the end it ends up being an honor system much of the time unless a work invoice is available) because I have barely any electrical skill and there is barely anybody locally with skills that I would trust working on a McIntosh or other similar quality gear. But in the end, because of my bias towards older stuff, there is always a risk involved and I understand that going in. I do have a friend locally who buys and sells vintage gear as a trade, and so I can usually go to him not only for stuff to buy, but to unload things. I don't make top dollar doing this, but that's ok. Much easier then trying to list online, shipping, etc.
While a MC2300 might be difficult to obtain, the same generation MC2100/2105, and the second generation 2120/2125 2200/2205 are fantastic amps with similar sound signatures, much easier on your back and slightly easier on your wallet and perhaps to find, and serve as more then suitable substitutions if they ever appear in your area.
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You’re an archivist. You save these beautiful memories from a possible horrible demise and keep them alive until it’s hopefully somebody else’s turn. Bravo!
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The 2300 had a breakdown this year and I found somebody to come to the house to work on it. Mostly fixed it. Sounds great but has a bit of a hum that I can’t resolve. Can’t hear it when music is playing so I ignore it. These old pieces are great but once they break it can be difficult to find qualified folks to repair. I used to own the 555 and thought it was a great amp. I was mostly kidding about using the 18’s in your stack but they do look good on top of the pile.
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48 minutes ago, lARrybody said:
This amp will do 2 ohms easy. Crown XLS2502
Yes it will, as what I use . But the Crown is certainly a lot easier to move around, a lot easier on the wallet, and a lot easier to find in the wild😁
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Fantastic! I bet they do sound great.
Now you just need an amp that will allow you to get down to 2 ohms so that you can run the 18's also.
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I have gone back to angling the 3's, also upside down. Allows to almost exact placement above the tweeters of the One's tweeters "trying to make the plane a smoother baffle for the tweeters, cutting down on interference / diffraction from the exposed top of the One and the exposed bottom of the 3...The reorientation toe-in does not matter much since the 3 tweeter has close to hemispherical dispersion to 10k and beyond. As you probably know, it was this tweeter which Allison surpassed somewhat in his AR3a and then truly surpassed in his own namesake tweeter..."(David Moran). After listening for a few days like this, I've found it to be smoother and allow for a better blending with the One's. And I've gotten used to how they look.
I finally got my McIntosh MC2300 back from a repair, and have it driving the One's, with the 2120 driving the 3's. Since both have separate gain controls it's pretty easy to match up the output, or at least get in the audible ballpark.
10 minutes ago, ar_pro said:You boys have some great collections!
I just today unloaded a bunch of gear that was taking up the better part of what used to be my daughter's room. Felt really good. I'm trying very hard to limit how much gear I have that's not used these days, and when I do add something try to unload something as fast as possible.
Anyway, that's the objective.
One's with 3's
in Allison
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I think they'd smile, laugh, and not take it so seriously and be happy that folks are still enjoying their products.
Lighten up. And Happy Holidays.