[AR vs modern speakers]

5 minutes ago, Andre_Db66 said:

🤣

It was even funnier than that actually…… 

The audiologist puts me in this tiny booth for the test. She was very nice and very pregnant. I have to say seven or eight months at least.

So here I am in this midget booth with this woman who is getting ready to deliver trying to crawl around me and hook up her wires and microphones. The whole thing was morphing into something straight out of a sitcom. 
so the “three” of us got it done. I hope the kid is doing just fine.

[AR vs modern speakers]

1 hour ago, AR surround said:

All of this discussion is great, but what I'm truly waiting for is an advancement that will give old ears the frequency response of that of a new born baby.

(Just had my ears tested.  They are just fine up to 8000 Hz.  After that...)

The last time I was checked by an audiologist, I kept putting my hand up… Whether I heard something or not she wasn’t very impressed.

[AR vs modern speakers]

6 hours ago, Andre_Db66 said:

“The nostalgia of old and bulky wood vineer speakers is not for everyone taste, closing your eyes and listening to the magic is universal though. In that respect AR or Advent can directly compete with any modern speaker thrown in the comparison chart.”

Not sure about this……

I totally get the difference between a wooden speaker enclosure versus an acoustic suspension enclosure.

Somehow, the whole nostalgia thing to me just doesn’t fit.

[AR vs modern speakers]

What constitutes a “modern” loudspeaker?

 

If you break down the anatomy of the mechanics typically found in today’s full range. Loudspeakers AR is pretty much as modern as any of them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

On 2/28/2024 at 11:41 AM, newandold said:

 

Yes, and not only that my concerns were with the top firing woofer being too far out from the wall…… A compromise to get everything else lined up.

I need to be honest and correct myself regarding the Allison top firing woofers……

I’ve mentioned it more than once over the years, but the only Allison designs I’ve never been a fan of, are any of the top firing woofer designs, which include the Allison 4, the 6 and any of those designs which put themselves at the receiving end of dirt. I get WHY they are designed the way they are, but for my money they need to belong to somebody else.

[AR4x replacement tweeter recomendations?]

6 minutes ago, ReliaBill Engineer said:

They’re original. Need a refoam, though. But that’s always better than someone else’s botched refoam, and usually means original woofers.

Agreed and you should be good to go.

 

The midrange and tweeters are interchangeable with the other original three-way Allison’s one, 3  eight and nine

(if you decide to do a little spare driver shopping)

[AR4x replacement tweeter recomendations?]

10 minutes ago, ReliaBill Engineer said:

Allison made very fine speakers! I used to frequent an upscale audio shop in downtown Annapolis, MD, that sold Allison. I really loved the Model 2! I listened to my first CD in 1983 on those. Alan Parsons Project “Eye In The Sky”. It was a revelation! 
 

Im very tempted to buy a pair of 2s I saw for sale.

I had the big brother A1 for 35 years.

If you go for it, make sure the 8 inch woofers are original. They should be 16 ohm drivers parallel wired.

[AR4x replacement tweeter recomendations?]

38 minutes ago, ReliaBill Engineer said:

For those perusing this thread. The PRT 8 ohm tweeter:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I grew up starting in 1963 with the 2a then later, the 4ax and the 2ax.

So that being said, I’ve got a soft spot in my heart for any and every effort to keep those old things going. even though I migrated to Allison acoustics

I’m not one of those who attempts to restore the actual drivers, but instead made a career out of eBay shopping to enhance my emergency stash.

[Can tweeters be "protected"? IE: fusing, etc.]

2 hours ago, newandold said:

MDX-2 is the way to go for external fusing. …..Still have some will post a pic later. Great choice protection for the original AR lineup.

 

[Can tweeters be "protected"? IE: fusing, etc.]

MDX-2 is the way to go for external fusing. …..Still have some will post a pic later. Great choice protection for the original AR lineup.

[Can tweeters be "protected"? IE: fusing, etc.]

2 hours ago, tourmax said:

You may have noticed my recent thread about the tweeters in a set of AR4X's being damaged by a high freq feedback squeal when a microphone was plugged into my Sansui 8080DB.

It's not something I do (was bud "jacking in") and there were a few other things that conspired to make the loud feedback squeal. It now appears it broke/melted the voice coil wire to the terminal in at least one of the tweeters. I'm currently using a second set of AR4X's I had in storage.

I seldom have "Big Suey" much over 25% volume, 50% being a rare occurrence because the pressure level in the room at that volume is just not enjoyable for me (room is only 10x10).

As we all know, these speakers are becoming hard to come by and I seem to prefer the AR4X's over most other speaker sets I've tried, so I'd like to protect them from unexpected "spikes"  if I can. Specifically, I'd like to protect the tweeters from the type of feedback "spike" they experienced and damaged them. 

I don't plan on doing anything that would have a possibility of damaging them, but I wasn't expecting someone else over for a visit to do something like jam a mic in at volume before I could do anything about it. I suppose there's also the specter of a fault in the amp taking them out too as 1970's SS electronics won't really do a lot to protect components downstream if it has an internal fault.

 

Would there be any sense to "fusing" the AR4x's? Perhaps fuse the tweeters separately (ie: inside the box) from the main input on the back?

 

I've seen the AR scan on this site's repository, but it seems to mainly talk about a whole speaker protection fuse. I don't have an issue with placing a fuse internally to the box to protect the tweeter if that need be. Opening them up to check/replace a fuse is infinitely preferable to me than having to repair/replace a near "unobtanium" tweeter.

Another quick question: is it possible the caps in the speakers need to be replaced? I would have though they would have taken the hit instead of the tweeters if they were still in good shape. As far as I know, they are originals (IE: the big "wax box"). Maybe I should just replace the caps on "spec"....

 

All the tweeters in my system are protected by self resetting “by stable resistors“. They open if things get too hot and then come back when things cool off. I had only one that I can recall over the years doing its job. These are Allison tweeters not AR Roy Allison worked for AR, and was the design way back when. 

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

4 minutes ago, Johng99 said:

 

I think that would be Ideal. Unfortunately I don’t have the space for it under the TV. 

 

4 minutes ago, Johng99 said:

 

I think that would be Ideal. Unfortunately I don’t have the space for it under the TV. 

Yes, and not only that my concerns were with the top firing woofer being too far out from the wall…… A compromise to get everything else lined up.

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

16 minutes ago, Johng99 said:

I was lucky and found mids and tweeters from different sources parting out Allison Ones, Twos and Fours. I bought all of them and price was reasonable.

I first noticed the variation in output when repairing an AL-120. An external wire had corroded away (common issue) and upon repairing and testing I found output was markedly different. I measured out of the cabinets, using a signal generator, a scope and an SPL meter. I decide to test the model One drivers when I measured a significant output difference while measuring frequency response.. I found one tweeter and one midrange that were weak. That is when I tested the spares and picked the best. Now both speakers measure pretty flat out to 16k or so ( I don’t remember exactly as it’s been a few years and I didn’t keep notes).

I currently use my Ones and Fours in a 5.1 surround system and still think Allison’s are the most natural sounding speakers that I’ve ever heard. I’m still looking for a good, small center channel to go with them. Right now using KEF LS50 and I’m not satisfied, lol.

The center channel I always wanted to try (and never got around to It) was on a singular, original version of the “Allison Eight”….(not the “CD Eight”.)

That’s the one (if you’re familiar with) the top firing woofer and mid range and tweeter, one of each facing outward in the center of the cabinet. 

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

27 minutes ago, Johng99 said:

Yes, I talked to the seller and they are gone. I’m a little disappointed but also relieved as I didn’t really know if I had space for them. As it is, I’m very happy with my Model Ones. I sorted through a bunch of tweeters and midranges (about 8 of each) and used those with the highest output. Frequency response wasn’t too different between each driver but there was a big difference in output with some much lower than others. End result is good and they measure pretty flat.

 

This is good news…… And I wanted to wait until it was over before I said anything!

Unless there was a height issue in your listening space, you would’ve had plenty of room…… you only need a couple of inches in width and depth to accommodate the IC 20s,  that would just take over your original footprint. If you were adding them to your collection, that would be another story, of course.

Well, you certainly have me outnumbered with a quantity of spare drivers according to what you wrote. Anyone who was interested in the IC 20s REALLY needs to have a stash like that to be committed for the long-haul.

 

Interesting what you said about the output….i’ve never done that extensive testing of the drivers; only whether they work or not and whether the mid range drivers have any of the infamous voice coil rubbing that can happen with those.

Before Bill Legall stop servicing Allison out in Lansdale PA, he rebuilt a few of my IC 20 drivers…..the midranges that exhibited some of the voice coil rubbing and realigned the voice coils, using a signal generator. 
 

Curious if you tested the driver output out of the cabinet? There are several factors that could impact the individual DB output of the drivers if they were to be tested inside the cabinets.

 

The Allison:One is a magnificent loudspeaker. The only reason I had for going to the IC 20 was that the opportunity presented itself but if it had not, I would’ve been sitting pretty just the same.

 

I ran the A1’s in a surround-sound configuration for 12 years before I swapped them out for the IC 20s and it was magnificent

 

 

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:14 PM, Johng99 said:

I don’t live too far from Scottsdale and am an Allison fan. I currently have Model Ones, Twos and 2 pair Model Fours. I never gave the IC-20 much thought as I didn’t think there were many near me. I’ve spoken with the seller and he says he has owned for a few years and we’re in current condition when he purchased. He is oblivious to the image controls, so I’m guessing they don’t work. I’m interested but we’ll see.

…..No longer available according to the site….

would be interesting to know what happened, but on eBay no available information… So it goes 

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

33 minutes ago, Johng99 said:

I don’t live too far from Scottsdale and am an Allison fan. I currently have Model Ones, Twos and 2 pair Model Fours. I never gave the IC-20 much thought as I didn’t think there were many near me. I’ve spoken with the seller and he says he has owned for a few years and we’re in current condition when he purchased. He is oblivious to the image controls, so I’m guessing they don’t work. I’m interested but we’ll see.

Hi John,

if you were to decide that you’re interested in pursuing this, I’d be more than happy to arm you with all the information you would need to make an informed purchase. I have been through those IC 20s inside out from top to bottom. If you have any questions they’ll all be answered before we get done.

.

Best regards, Bill.

[Old Allison speakers]

Anyone looked at eBay this week regarding Allison (interesting)

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

I think it’s been around a decade now, since another pair of these speakers has appeared for sale. Another interesting coincidence is that there is yet another eBayer selling an image control remote and has no connection to the pair of speakers being offered up. These two guys should hook up Lol 

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

23 minutes ago, samberger0357 said:

Unfortunately I live in Northern California, and a roadtrip to AZ for speakers is not on my to do list. And considering that I just acquired a holy grail audio piece (Garrard 301) my wallet thanks me for my restraint.

 

But I'll keep looking.

Understood I totally get this… It could be that this pair indeed is not worth pursuing. They certainly need some work and refinishing that being said the location… You said, unfortunately, you live in Northern California, some of us who were hot to a pair of those would be in amazement that they were within a 12 hour journey.

 

 

 

I only had to go a little over four hours to grab mine 

[Rubber surrounds for RA Mini Reference...vs more foam?]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:36 AM, newandold said:

Agreed there are topics that get beaten to death at times, but in this case I would give folks a pass for sure. Rotted foam surrounds (or rubber ones) never happen at a good time and when users get caught off guard by this, they are looking for answers.  I’ve had foam surrounds since the 1970s, but didn’t know about the improvements in the foam until the turn of the century lol.

Tied into this indirectly (VERY) Is a listing for a pair of Allison IC 20 loudspeakers on eBay, that proudly display, what appears to be a replacement surround for one of the woofers they came from Cerwin Vega it certainly appears. Nice and red with the grille cover missing. (enough to make a grown man cry lol.)

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

On 9/11/2023 at 3:36 PM, samberger0357 said:

Don't see A3's come up at all. And if I ever have the opportunity to buy a pair of IC-20's, I will.

There’s a pair on eBay today if you’re interested…… Looks like they’re located in Scottsdale Arizona

 

266682949652

[acoustic research ar3a for sale any comments...]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:20 PM, Gaston said:

Woofers are original, they need to be refoamed. Tweeters are probably from next gen AR-11/10π. Mids looks like Tonegen replacement drivers. 

AFAIK everything is ok-ish with drivers unless you want an all original pair.

The unknown lies inside, since there are no pots, there is a big concern that the crossover has been modified. 

 

I give kudos to anyone who modifies the acoustic research loudspeaker to get a nice listenable midpoint on those pots and just leave it there and do away with them all together. The AR pots are what ultimately drove me away from those loudspeakers not worth it for me for all the fussing. I see a lot of guys going through to try to make them work. Not an effort at all that’s worth it to me.

[Allison IC-20'S (in original boxes for 20 years!)]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:37 AM, newandold said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115882899324
 

what a surprise a five dollar remote selling for $200 and it hasn’t gone yet imagine that

What’s even funnier about this is the description attached to the link…..The IC 20 remote control for the modules is useless to anyone except the owners of those speakers that contain the modules so you have to bear that in mind when you read the description.

[Rubber surrounds for RA Mini Reference...vs more foam?]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:00 PM, frankmarsi said:

“newandold’ has made the point that the newer surrounds hold up better and apparently they do. I too re-foamed my four LST surrounds in around 2010 and thank goodness, they’re still holding up.

I read a few years ago that new additives were being incorporated in the foam chemical formulas enabling more longevity. And I might add that’s a relief as I’ve done more than my share of re-foaming AR 12 inch woofers.

Attempting to use actual ‘rubber’ surrounds in a speaker designed for use with more compliant foam will not only affect the woofer’s movement but, bring it away from its original sound.

A classic case of re-writing, re-explaining over and over regarding the same information, if only viewers would do a ‘search’ on the keywords, topics, it’s all been answered here already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

25

Agreed there are topics that get beaten to death at times, but in this case I would give folks a pass for sure. Rotted foam surrounds (or rubber ones) never happen at a good time and when users get caught off guard by this, they are looking for answers.  I’ve had foam surrounds since the 1970s, but didn’t know about the improvements in the foam until the turn of the century lol.

[Celebrity sighting - AR-18LS used as monitors in Paul McCartney's studio in 1994]

Very nice though in the “living studio“ (Abbey Road,) Altec  605  were the order of the day….. followed later on by B&W