dynaco_dan

Hi Minh; What are the Allison tweeters doing in the speaker cabinet? Are those Allison midrange drivers as well? Vern

Hi Minh; Thank you very much for posting this information. Vern

Hi again; The tweeter used in the KLH Twelve and other KLH models was always well received in reviews, as I remember. Maybe not perfect, it is a dynamic tweeter and not an electrostatic tweeter. Certainly speaks well of it's solid design and range, when it is used in more than one model KLH speaker. The model 12.5 mids, were full-range when used on their own, or as midrange drivers in tandem, as used in the KLH Fives and Twelves, which required separate sealed sub-enclosures for them. Pretty amazing feat for such a small driver with only a cloth surround. The same woofers, also only with cloth surrounds, were used in the KLH Twenty-Three's, Five's, and Twelve's, attesting to their robust construction, as well. With KLH doing their in-house driver manufacturing, their quality control was very tight and positive. With the floor standing cabinet's each being 29" high x 22" wide x 15" deep and not too much under 100 pounds each, it was fighting the WAF. Being a floor standing speaker and twice the size of the AR-3A's, it does appear that an instore display would have, in most cases, be against the size of the KLH Twelves, against the smaller and shelf friendlier AR-3A's, nevermind sound comparisons. Yes, it would be nice to have a battle of the speakers, so to speak. An AR-3a vs KLH Twelve and AR-5 vs KLH Five friendly battle, would make for an interesting and entertaining comparison. Yes, the KLH Twelves can be wall mounted, with special re-inforcements. They can also be stacked.

Hi Kent; Thank you for your speaker/music review. Maybe you can report back when the MicroStatic's are not in use, please.

Hi again; I will be using Carl's hand drawn schetch of the KLH Five crossover as a starting example to follow. There is also a CAD drawing, in the library, of the KLH Five crossover, that is first class. I do not have a CAD program. I am not an artist, I still can only draw stick people. LOL LOL

Hi James; I have mentioned here before that I dine with a friend who was the service manager of the local Dynaco warantee station, every month or so. He was saying recently that the Stereo 120 was the most popular amplifier ever sold with the Pat-4 pre-amp. I do not remember the rock bottom prices they went for at the 2 local price killer stores but they sold them by the semi-trailer load, along with the A-25's. In my years of reading, I have seen the stock Stereo 70 and PAS-3X combination written as a combination to die for, so to speak. There is numerous modifications published which changes the sound and value of them. I have never heard this set. Obviously the speaker system would also be very important due to the low damping factor and power output. Perhaps 8 ohm Larger Advents might be a good match rather than 4 ohm AR-3A's. It will be interesting to read others comments in this regards. I mentioned earlier about not shipping an aligned FM-3 tuner, as the settings change with transit vibrations. This message is from the AVA website. The Stereo 120 has the TIP mods.

Nice looking setup as is, Kent. The magazine was Consumer's Guide not Consumer's Report, and I believe that magazine is still being published. I bought a few issues off the local bookstore shelves. I do not know what Consumer's Report commented about the KLH Twelves. At about that same time period, that magazine, GG, or at least Micro Acoustics or AR, published a photo of their reference speaker system, used to compare to other brands. They used an AR-1W woofer system, Janszen 1-30 Electrostatic Arrays, and MicroStatic Tweeter Arrays. I was very fortunate to be able to write a rubber cheque so that I could borrow a pair of the Janszen's and MicroStatics for a weekend. I already had my pair of AR-3A's on hand for the woofers, which may have been a better match, with the lower woofer crossing over to the Janszen's. I was very impressed, not the former wife though, with my AR amplifier, Simon and Garfunkle never sounded better, I'm sure my neighbours hated me that weekend at least. Dynaco was heavily dumped here, at rock bottom prices by two store chains. Dynaco A-25's at $52.00 CDN each, limited to two pair in that store at door opening, mind you. My big bros was there at door opening to see. I think that hifi like so many other products, if you don't offer spiffs, exclusivity, or huge profits, you don't get the shelf or floor space. The very first hifi system I ever bought was in 1965, as an adult, it was not very good, I was suckered in by a dis-reputable salesman, he was very good and experienced at it and I was not. A week later, I was downtown, AGAIN, with Consumer's Report's in hand, AGAIN, and I heard a very large, clear speaker system in another store. A wall of speakers, perhaps 20 - 30 mixed pairs or more, were facing me. The large speaker system was in fact, the AR-4X's, sounding much, very much larger than it's diminutive size. That started my hifi bug, even moreso. At just over $1.00 per hour as an apprentice, I was already financed to just under $600.00, so it was a few years before I could see my way to upgrade anything. He did give me about 50 feet of thin, very thin speaker wire at no extra charge though, so there is that. LOL LOL Even though I was interested in AR , AR had quite a battle with the poor commissions, badmouthing and profit margins being offered. Maybe if I had been introduced to KLH, I might be a different person now, richer and married, that is for sure. LOL LOL

Hi Kent; Nice job and photo. Did you see the penciled, on the plywood, serial number, in each of your crossovers? I see that you have different switches looking at the wafers, than mine. Your's look very familiar to me, can't place the manufacturer for the life of me. Long ago, in a far off land, I always wanted to do this, LOL, when the KLH Twelve was being sold, along with the AR-3A's, Consumer Guide Magazine suggested either one as, the very finest speakers available and to judge for yourself which is better for you. There was no mention, that I can remember, now at least, that the Twelves were almost twice the size and weight of the AR-3A's, which might upset the wives a little. The Twelves are about the size of older tv consoles, sitting on the floor, a little too big for the average shelf. My feeling that they do not sell too well, is, that their shipping cost, about $400.00 US a pair, to ship to Canada, size, and lack of recognition compared to the AR-3A's. From some of the bad packaging I have seen with just speaker drivers, who knows what the Twelves might arrive like. I picked up my pair about 12 years ago, for about $100.00 for the pair, locally. I wrote previously about how I accidently discovered them in a pawn shop as I was leaning over the speaker to see the rear of an electronic crossover and wow, there was the crossovers looking up at me. They were attached with their Velcro to the top rear of the speakers, otherwise, I would not have recognized them and would never have seen another pair to this day. They took up the entire back seat of my small van, and they are heavy beast's. In all the years of hi-fi-ing, I have seen 2 pairs of KLH Seventeens in one home and a pair of KLH Nines used in a demonstration in another. KLH was not very well promoted, as I remember, here in Vancouver at least. I wrote a comment earlier about seeing separate speakers and crossovers on different auctions. I can't imagine a buyer, not being rather livid, to find out the the $35.00 speaker system, that cost $300.00 delivered, and damaged, has not got a crossover and they do not come along too often by themselves. I wonder how many owners connect up to the bare rear speaker terminals and play around without knowing what they are doing. I would like to try to draw a schematic of the crossover without CAD. I bought crayons and coloured pencils for the future project.

Hi again; I recently wrote in the Advent forum regarding using, 3M #847 Rubber and Gasket Adhesive, for re-foaming surrounds. It has been used here in Vancouver speaker service departments for many years for the purpose of bonding the foam surrounds to the speaker frames successfully. This compound does not specify that it remains sticky, or not, as in non-hardening, the same as the Permatex High Tack Gasket Sealant does. I wonder if this might also be useful for re-coating the cloth surrounds. MMMMMM I believe it was, Roy, that wrote, Permatex, appeared not to be suitable for re-foaming projects. The 3M is about 50% more expensive than the Permatex. $60.00 CDN for 32 oz of 3M and $20.00 CDN for 16 oz Permatex, both non-mailable of course.

Hi Sal; Nice system. If you bought every when they were new you bought very good value equipment. There is also help for restoring your FM-3 tube tuner to near new specs. A few pages of tips, not mine either, which holds your hand to eliminate the worry of failure. Due to it's current website location, I cannot download it here but I can tell you where to go later. As a warning, do not ship an FM-3 tube tuner, as the transit shock changes some of the settings, unavoidably. Do you have all of the Dynaco manuals, particulary the FM-3 tuner? There again, some are available free. Which version of Dynaco A-25's do you have? Scan, with the vent above the tweeter or Seas, with the vent below the woofer? If you were to ever remove the grille cloths of the A-25's, you must unscrew the Dynaco logos CCW first, to remove them, othewise you will break the bond with the plate and the screw. That screw penetrates the front baffle board also.

Hi again; I was just thinking about some of the ebay auctions I have seen over the years. KLH Twelve speaker cabinets sold without the controllers and the controllers sold without the speaker systems. Either way, a headache for the successful buyers trying to find it's mate. You just paid about what the two tweeters alone are going for, good deal. I wonder what a stacked pair of KLH Twelves would sound like?

Hi Carl; You may very well be correct. I would think that the original compound was probably another compound, used commercally, and not good for anyones health and was discontinued. I didn't see any safety gear in those photos of person's applying the compound. It certainly possibly wasn't the first such case, as I worked with asbestos, un-protected, in the heating industry for decades. My first employer for 9 years, did not have ANY safety practices setup.

Hi John; Just in case other members want to buy the, Permatex High Tack Gasket Adhesive, compound it is readily available from most all auto supply houses. I just looked at two samples, the smaller 4 oz #80062 can is less than $10.00 CDN retail. The larger 16 oz #80063 can is less than $19.00 CDN retail. Please read all precautions before using it. It is too dangerous to mail. Since I started reading this web sites many interesting write-ups, ArmorAll has been brought up here and there for using on AR cloth surrounds to re-seal them. I do not believe that the use of ArmorAll has done any harm to those surrounds, it just didn't seal them as we would have liked, no matter how many coats were applied. Certainly very much less than latex paint, glue or silicone thinned. ArmorAll was never designed to be our final solution. As with the passing of time, another more appropriate current solution has been discovered which will help prolong those classic cloth surrounds of, AR and KLH, to name but two brands, that used them. This non-hardening sealant, brushed on, will seal those surrounds and dustcaps where applicable. EXCLUDING only the 12.5 KLH dustcap. One coat application, direct from the can, with no concern for the few holes in the surrounds not filled in. The cans even come with a dauber for applying the solution.

Hi there; I watched that auction. I have downloaded two photos here, one original crossover and one after modifications. The modified photo is Kent's working crossover, I believe, the earlier one may also be Kent's. Kent may wish to comment on that project.

Thank you very much for all of your combined efforts, to make this site another standout, with this beautiful work of art manual.

Hi there; I would delete the word re-juvinate and just use re-seal and preserve our cloth surrounds, with the non-hardening and flexible Permatex High Tack Adhesive. As of a recent discoverey by RoyC, thank you again RoyC, forget using ArmorAll for any speaker use at all. It appears that ArmorAll is not applicable for the cloth surround re-sealing, with our speakers at least. It has been suggested that, alcohol/acetone, be used to, clean/re-move, some/all, factory coating, only from the surround. Not from the cone! When cleaning, be careful around the surround/frame/cone glue area, so as to not to disolve the factory glue. This procedure is only if the surround is in need of re-coating. Using the Permatex High Tack Adhesive, one light coat, un-thinned, to re-seal the cloth surrounds. Do not attempt to seal absolutely every surround pore. If the dust cap has a coating from the factory, this may also need a slight touch-up. This is also applicable to KLH drivers, but do not touch the 12.5 dust cap. The cleaning/removal of the earlier factory applied compound may or may not needed. Obviously a virgin material will accept and seal better than a dusty and previously coated material. As a suggestion, acid swabs, used to apply acid flux when soldering copper piping, are only about 5 or 10 cents each and if you want you can just throw it away when finished, rather than a paint brush. These are usually available at any plumbing supply house/Home Depot. My suggestion is to place a sticker or label on the rear of each driver re-coated, if out of the enclosure and/or rear of the cabinet, if not, with the date and what was done. It will be interesting to read our results here in 10 or so years. We are indebted to you RoyC.

Hi Roy; Have you given any thought of using this solution for re-foaming the foam surrounds, instead of the white glue? According to the spec sheets it is a non-hardening gasket adhesive. It would be nice if it is dual purpose. I know that 3M has a similar adhesive that works great on foam surrounds and it may also be usable as a surround coating.

Hi there; I just went to the Loctite website. They have a Material Safety Data Sheet, 3 pages long, that MUST be read by all potential users! It must be treated as a very touchy item and great care must be exercised, if used. Use it outdoors! There maybe a skin or respiratory reaction. Basicly treat it the same as you would Acetone. As I was reading the product information, I was seeing that maybe it could also be used as a surround re-foam adhesive. It would be nice if it can be used as a dual purpose solution. Nice that it is readily available, locally as well. Sorry if this kinda puts a damper on this topic, but we must be very careful in it's application.

Hi Roy; Thank you very much for your very thorough report. Certainly gives us all an option for rejuvenating our old AR and KLH cloth surrounds. I tried to think of another speaker company that used cloth surrounds in our classic speakers, I couldn't think of any. As a side note, I wanted to print out this write-up. I wasn't successful finding a way to print it out, yet. I did save the attachments, but not the printout.

Hi John; What do you have against flea's and their cousins? LOL Do you know approximately when the, "Loctite Butyl Rubber Sealant", was discontinued? Looking forward to Roy's report on a new and available solution. Thank you, John, for your write-up.

Hi there; I was day-dreaming, again, about all the write-ups regarding the, KLH butyl speaker surround coating of their many speaker surrounds. It appears that in a KLH service bulletin, that the warantee depot would apply an additional coating of the KLH supplied butyl material. I believe that Kent mentioned recently in the KLH forum that a particualr manufacturer does not make it anymore. Other than, Tom Tyson's, please correct me if I am wrong, suggestion to use ArmorAll to rejuvinate AR cloth surrounds, 2 coats 24 hours apart, there seems to be no other information. At least at this time, there is no mention of the solution that AR used or any follow-up coatings. Surely there must be a source for liquid butyl, today, I do not mean only in 45 gallon drums either. Aleenes watered down glue has been brought up, water downed latex sealant, as well as a liquid compound by a mailorder speaker repair company. I have been looking at a pair of early used AR-2AX speakers that I bought this past year. They both have the old aluminum frame, alnico magnet woofer with cloth surrounds. The woofers both have a set of 4, hand applied x's, of a liquid compound, as well as a smear of it on the dust domes. The X's are not uniform in size or shape but definitely hand painted on the cone material. I assume this is to add weight to the cone and cutdown on cone-cry. Has anyone here used ArmorAll and can say that this is a suitable substitute for the factory original material. Is two coatings enough, or should we use more? It is strange that when these speakers were produced, in the 1960's, there has been no mention of a sealant for the surrounds ever since.

Hi John; I use a Double Dyna 400 once in a while when I am tired of my Crown DC300A. LOL I also have a PAT-5 BiFet as a spare for my Crown IC-150 pre-amp. An AR fm tuner is my main music source but I also have a Dynaco FM-5 and AF-6 for backups. My AR turntable w/Rabco SL-8E arm w/Stanton 681 EE cartridge, is not my original purchase and a Marantz 63SE supplies the cd music. It appears that with my hearing loss, I could get by with a lot of less expensive low fi equipment and without tweeters too. LOL

Hi again Kent; I see that the photo that you took has a whizzer cone on it's Philips driver. This is another use I believe for the Philips driver, less whizzer cone. Dahlquist DQ-10. I may be wrong about the identity of this driver here. Any chance please of a rear magnet photo of your OEM Advent woofer/ fullrange driver. It reminds me of a Seas driver in cone appearance only from the front. Did Henry Kloss design that smaller system himself?