AR2AX PROJECT

[DON]

Almost 40yrs back I bought a pair of AR2ax speakers. These were the European built ARs with the dark grille and trim around the front edge of the cabinet. Of course I did what a lot of us did with our vintage gear.....I sold them around 97 and I've been regretting that seriously for the past several years. I've only seen one pair of these for sale......besides the pair I sold I've recently purchased a set of cabinets with the grilles and crossovers in excellent condition and I'm setting out on the long journey toward restoring these to some semblance of the originals or at least to nice sounding speakers. It will probably be a project I'll never complete but I want to try anyway. These ARs must have had backward tweeters because the baffle boards were much cleaner/neater than most ARs. I no longer have the owner manual and I would appreciate any information you could give me on these speakers. Photographs without the grilles and information about the drivers used will help. I may have to resort to aftermarket drivers if I can't find the originals. The woofers show up on e-bay once in a while but the backward tweeters and mids don't. Thanks for any help. :D

[JKent]

Sounds like a great project Don. There are lots of threads here regarding the 2ax, but this one includes a "history" courtesy of Steve F:

http://www.classicsp...h=1

I've restored 2 sets of AR2ax's: One early, with cast aluminum woofers, and one late, but never a Euro style. The early and late tweeters (red dome and black dome) are interchangeable, in pairs. The early red phenolic dome tweets were also used in the AR3 (not 3a). I think Roy's HiVi tweeter mod should work too, and those are backwired. I don't know if there were backwired versions of that tweeter on this side of the pond (probably), but you "could" add spring clips to your baffle or (my preference) go with the HiVi + inductor option. Roy wrote about the HiVi in AR2ax here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=5014

Your euro cabinets probably used the steel-frame woofers so don't buy the aluminum frame ones--they won't fit. As for the mids, they were backwired on the US ones, so no problem there.

Fortunately, 2ax's are fairly common and you should have little difficulty finding parts. Watch eBay of course, or "Vintage AR." Also put a "WTB" ad in the appropriate part of this forum--I've bought drivers at very fair prices from fellow enthusiasts here.

Good luck and be sure to post photos!

Kent

[DON]

Sounds like a great project Don. There are lots of threads here regarding the 2ax, but this one includes a "history" courtesy of Steve F:

http://www.classicsp...h=1

I've restored 2 sets of AR2ax's: One early, with cast aluminum woofers, and one late, but never a Euro style. The early and late tweeters (red dome and black dome) are interchangeable, in pairs. The early red phenolic dome tweets were also used in the AR3 (not 3a). I think Roy's HiVi tweeter mod should work too, and those are backwired. I don't know if there were backwired versions of that tweeter on this side of the pond (probably), but you "could" add spring clips to your baffle or (my preference) go with the HiVi + inductor option. Roy wrote about the HiVi in AR2ax here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=5014

Your euro cabinets probably used the steel-frame woofers so don't buy the aluminum frame ones--they won't fit. As for the mids, they were backwired on the US ones, so no problem there.

Fortunately, 2ax's are fairly common and you should have little difficulty finding parts. Watch eBay of course, or "Vintage AR." Also put a "WTB" ad in the appropriate part of this forum--I've bought drivers at very fair prices from fellow enthusiasts here.

Good luck and be sure to post photos!

Kent

Thanks Kent. Your references led to others and I've spent the better part of an hour going over some of the information. At one time I had a stack of information on AR speakers but after my wife died I sorta lost interest for a while and probably put it away or tossed it out. I'll wait until the cabinets arrive so that I see what I have to work with before I buy anything else but I've been searching the web and e-bay to see what's available. I bought mine in 1973 at the Wiesbaden Base Exchange when I was stationed at Rhien Main AFB. My last assignment before retiring. I loved the AR2ax especially for classical music maybe because the high end was rolled off a bit and my little 45 watt Kenwood receiver and Dual 1229 seemed specially made for this type of music. I'll take a look at the HiViv tweeter option. I'm still working on some nice Advents but I get bored easily these days and have to start on something else to keep interested. Thanks again Kent.

[DON]

My AR 2ax cabinets arrived yesterday. Not quite mint but for a speaker well over 30yrs. old they look amazing. I've never had any success posting photos on line but I'll take a few and try. They are completely bare except for the grilles which are perfect but they are missing the logos. They are made for the 4 hole woofer stamped frame. I'' probably have to be careful in buying drivers since some on e-bay or other places may not fit the holes. I'll need a complete crossover unless I can find a schematic. I can fabricate a crossover board but it won't have the directions for the pots. I'd like to replace the speaker terminals with banana type since almost all of my speaker cables are terminated with banana clips. I appreciate any help or suggestions you have. I would be very grateful for any help pointing me toward parts. :D

[JKent]

Hi Don

I have a couple of spare painted xo boards if the euro style used the same ones. Also some xo parts. PM me and I'll give you a "deal" when we figure out what you need

Kent

[JKent]

Hi Don

Here is a pic of the 2ax back plate. It's about 6" x 10.25" but the size is not critical. On the US-built 2ax there is a round hole in the back of the speaker cabinet, about 3.5" in diameter.

You can make your own plate from 1/8" Masonite, or go to a Michael's craft store--they sell small rectangles of Baltic plywood in different thicknesses but they come in the approx size of this Masonite panel. The panels I had are no longer available. As far as showing directions for the pots, I have some faceplates from PE L-pads I'd be happy to mail to you, gratis:

http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=260-250

There is a schematic in the Library here:

http://www.classicsp..._schematic.html

If you use 5-way binding posts or banana jacks, I'd suggest just 2, on standard 3/4" centers. Connect all the + wires to your red jack instead of having "T" for the tweeter & mid, and "2" for the woofer (unless you plan to try biamping in the future).

You purchased the pots. You will also need two #7 AR inductors, two 6uF caps and two 4uF caps. I mistakenly told you to use #5 inductors but those were for the earlier 2ax's. Here is an explanation from Roy, who knows more about these things than I do:

If he has the 4 hole cabinet, he will be using the #7 woofer coil (1.88mh), not #5(1.20mh). #5 was only used with the cloth surround woofer and the earliest foam surround woofers (with the wide frame).

So I suggest including the #7 inductors in your WTB posting. I'll check but don't "think" I have #7s.

Good luck with this project

Kent

[DON]

I now have 2 midrange drivers that check out ok with an ohm meter but I need to hook them up to a musical source and try them at low volume. I'll have both pots and l-pads ane I'll decide later which I want to use. The pots were advertised as having been cleaned and lubed so maybe I won't have to do anything to them. The black substance used to secure the screen on was put on at 10 to 5pm on Friday and looks bad I'd like to remove it and replace it with something that looks better. Purely cosmetic I know.

I was playing e-bay roulette and placed a bid that I was sure wouldn't stand up but it did so now I have a pair of fairly nice AR5s on the way to my door. I did the same with a pair of rough looking AR2ax and won again! I'll have to hire part time help just to move all these speakers......... (.I still have 2 Pair of Advents to work on).............around. With the help of kind people on this forum and the Good Lord I'll get them done. If not someone will get some fantastic bargains at my estate sale :D If you're anywhere near Lubbock, Tx. keep your eye out.

[DON]

Back again. Time to move my thread a little closer to the top. I acquired another pair of AR2ax speakers with pretty rough cabinets so I'm cannibalizing them for parts for my project. This pair has a pair of good looking/sounding woofers that look to have been refoamed recently. I've got those out with the white foam gaskets intact but I'll probably replace them with some Moretite. Moretite works nicely but you have to be careful tightening the bolts......on these I'll just use an X pattern and go slowly. Contrary to what I've read the crossovers are fairly easy to remove intact. After removing all the 40+yr. old crumbly fiberglass I used a wide bladed sharp putty knife slipped under the edge of the board and moving very slowly around the board the glue and small staples gave way an inch at a time andI finally had a complete board in my hands. I had to remove it because I needed it for my newer boxes and my somewhat inadequate vision requires me to be very close to whatever it is I'm soldering. I'll order the caps now and while waiting for those I'll do some more work on the cabinets. So far things are working out nicely and that makes it fun.

Since the caps are so small I may just go ahead and order from Sonicraft if they have the sizes I need.

Do I need to replace any of the other parts in the Xover?

Thanks for looking and any advice or suggestions will be very appreciated. Don

[JKent]

Just looked at the Sonic Craft website--I was not familiar with them. You need one 4uF and one 6uF per cabinet and yes, they do make Sonicaps in those values. The Gen I caps seem reasonable. If you go for the Platinum you'll have to get two 4uF and a 2uF because they don't have the 6uF value. Let's see, at $400 each for the 4Uf and $217 for the 2uF, your caps will come to just a tad over $1,000 per speaker :lol:

You should have the #7 inductors, you ordered pots (I would have used L-pads, but to each his own) and you plan to install banana jacks or 5-way binding posts. I'd say that's it.

Lowes sells Johns Manville fiberglass in convenient little bags that weigh about 9oz each. 3 bags per speaker is about right. You'll need some sheer fabric to replace the kimpac. Wire, solder, wire nuts and/or crimps. Don't hot glue the caps (see the AR3a restoration guide).

Kent

[DON]

Just looked at the Sonic Craft website--I was not familiar with them. You need one 4uF and one 6uF per cabinet and yes, they do make Sonicaps in those values. The Gen I caps seem reasonable. If you go for the Platinum you'll have to get two 4uF and a 2uF because they don't have the 6uF value. Let's see, at $400 each for the 4Uf and $217 for the 2uF, your caps will come to just a tad over $1,000 per speaker :lol:

You should have the #7 inductors, you ordered pots (I would have used L-pads, but to each his own) and you plan to install banana jacks or 5-way binding posts. I'd say that's it.

Lowes sells Johns Manville fiberglass in convenient little bags that weigh about 9oz each. 3 bags per speaker is about right. You'll need some sheer fabric to replace the kimpac. Wire, solder, wire nuts and/or crimps. Don't hot glue the caps (see the AR3a restoration guide).

Kent

Thanks Kent. I have both the L pads and pots. Which inductor do I need for the L pads..........I think I ordered #5s but I'll have to go back and check. I don't know for sure if I'll use Sonicaps or Dayton or Solen but I like to get them where I can get the ones I need all in one place. Now that I need two more woofers I may just have to leave the caps out all together :o I have quite a bit of fiberglass insulation that was left over when I was insulating my shed and got tired of doing that.........last year. I was having a lot more luck with that job than I'm having with these speakers.

Excaliber and Realistic!!

EDIT:I ordered the HIVI Q1R tweeter and the Jantzen .05mh 18awg inductor. Will this work with the L pads?

PS EDIT: I found some nice linen cloth on the bay that looks very similar to what was used on some of these vintage speakers.

[JKent]

EDIT:I ordered the HIVI Q1R tweeter and the Jantzen .05mh 18awg inductor. Will this work with the L pads?

PS EDIT: I found some nice linen cloth on the bay that looks very similar to what was used on some of these vintage speakers.

You need the inductor with the HiVi tweets. 0.05 is correct.

With L-pads, you should use a 25 ohm 10 watt resistor in parallel with the mid (not as important with the tweets) for "authentic" sound. (credit RoyC for this. Also see the AR3a guide http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_schematicss/restoring_the_ar-3a/restoring_the_ar-3a_full_pd.pdf page 13)

The best linen to use is the "lambswool" 18 count from 1-2-3 Stitch. Again, see the 3a restoration booklet (page 17).

Kent

[JKent]

To clarify (I hope)

• The AR #7 inductor is shown at the lower left in the 1st photo.
• 2nd photo shows a mid with 25 ohm resistor.
• 3rd photo is another 2ax xo, this one with L-pads.
• 4th photo is a HiVi tweeter with 0.05mH coil attached in parallel. Wood spacer to insulate (cardboard would work too) Inductor reverses polarity.

Kent

[DON]

To clarify (I hope)

• The AR #7 inductor is shown at the lower left in the 1st photo.
• 2nd photo shows a mid with 25 ohm resistor.
• 3rd photo is another 2ax xo, this one with L-pads.
• 4th photo is a HiVi tweeter with 0.05mH coil attached in parallel. Wood spacer to insulate (cardboard would work too) Inductor reverses polarity.

Kent

Thanks Kent. This will help a lot. What caps and resistors do you use? I haven't ordered these yet. The tweeter, inductor and binding posts will be here tomorrow but I won't do anything else until I have the crossovers finished.

The opening/crack on my AR5 is open to the inside. I've pulled it together as far as it will go but I'll have to fill the entire bottom side from inside the cabinet.

[JKent]

whoa! You're opening a can of worms! Capacitors are almost like religion! On the first crossover shown I used Zen caps. Nice but NLA (no longer available). On the second I used some 3uF surplus caps from Madisound and a 4uF Dayton from Parts Express. That's because those are what I had on hand. The resistor is a Dayton "non-inductive" sand cast.

ANY 10 or 12 watt non-inductive resistor from Parts Express or Madisound will be fine: Dayton, Mills, Eagle.

Dayton film caps from PE are popular and reasonable. Solens from Madisound or PE are good and also reasonable. Carli mylar caps from Madisound are good and CHEAP. Clarity Caps PX from Madisound are very nice and not too expensive. Roy just clued me in to Erse caps from Erseaudio. I think that covers the basics. Of course some people prefer very high priced caps. YMMV.

You can go +/= 10% on the caps. You need 4uF and 6uF. 3.9uF and 6.2uF are common sizes and will be fine.

Good luck

Kent

[DON]

whoa! You're opening a can of worms! Capacitors are almost like religion! On the first crossover shown I used Zen caps. Nice but NLA (no longer available). On the second I used some 3uF surplus caps from Madisound and a 4uF Dayton from Parts Express. That's because those are what I had on hand. The resistor is a Dayton "non-inductive" sand cast.

ANY 10 or 12 watt non-inductive resistor from Parts Express or Madisound will be fine: Dayton, Mills, Eagle.

Dayton film caps from PE are popular and reasonable. Solens from Madisound or PE are good and also reasonable. Carli mylar caps from Madisound are good and CHEAP. Clarity Caps PX from Madisound are very nice and not too expensive. Roy just clued me in to Erse caps from Erseaudio. I think that covers the basics. Of course some people prefer very high priced caps. YMMV.

You can go +/= 10% on the caps. You need 4uF and 6uF. 3.9uF and 6.2uF are common sizes and will be fine.

Good luck

Kent

I know how the threads go on caps over on the Club Polk forum. Almost as bad as speaker wires and interconnects. Thanks again. I'd forgotten about ERSE I'll have to check on those.

[DON]

whoa! You're opening a can of worms! Capacitors are almost like religion! On the first crossover shown I used Zen caps. Nice but NLA (no longer available). On the second I used some 3uF surplus caps from Madisound and a 4uF Dayton from Parts Express. That's because those are what I had on hand. The resistor is a Dayton "non-inductive" sand cast.

ANY 10 or 12 watt non-inductive resistor from Parts Express or Madisound will be fine: Dayton, Mills, Eagle.

Dayton film caps from PE are popular and reasonable. Solens from Madisound or PE are good and also reasonable. Carli mylar caps from Madisound are good and CHEAP. Clarity Caps PX from Madisound are very nice and not too expensive. Roy just clued me in to Erse caps from Erseaudio. I think that covers the basics. Of course some people prefer very high priced caps. YMMV.

You can go +/= 10% on the caps. You need 4uF and 6uF. 3.9uF and 6.2uF are common sizes and will be fine.

Good luck

Kent

Fed X truck arrived with a box of goodies for my AR2ax. The HIVIs are uber nice looking tweets. The inductors look a little smaller to me than the one attached to the tweeter in your photo. The specs on the inductor reads part number 255-200. L-0.05mh. Rdc-0.09 ohm 18awg. Is this correct" I'd like to use just two binding posts but I'll have to review the schematic to be sure which wires are pos. I'm off to see my cardiologist in a few minutes so playtime will have to wait a couple of hrs

[JKent]

I agree--those HiVi tweets are very nice (and a bargain price)

See post #6. "1" is neg, "2" and "T" are ground. The yellow wires from the tweeter and mid are negative. Blue wire from woof is neg. Just remember, the inductor reverses polarity, so depending on how you wire your tweeter, the yellow becomes positive. Notice on mine, the short tellow from the tweet's - terminal is spliced to the inductor and a BLACK wire from there to the crossover.

Yup--that's the right inductor.

Kent

[DON]

Hey Kent I know in one of your posts or messages you mentioned where I can get the cloth like material that goes between the woofer and the fiberglass but I can't find it.

Also does the fiberglass fill have to be in pieces or can it be placed in the cabinets in solid batts.

Thanks. Don

[dynaco_dan]

Hey Kent I know in one of your posts or messages you mentioned where I can get the cloth like material that goes between the woofer and the fiberglass but I can't find it.

Also does the fiberglass fill have to be in pieces or can it be placed in the cabinets in solid batts.

Thanks. Don

Hi there

You can use just about any material, such as burlap, etc.

After you weigh out the fiberglass, you do need to re-install an equal amount, you can tear it up up into chunks.

AR originally used a square sheet about 18" square of a cellulose material, Kapok I believe.

I bought a carton 20 years ago from a local plumbing wholesaler, for use as a wiping clothe for service persons, rather than used rags.

It or it's equivalent is still being sold here at our local Rona home center store as cleanup wipes.

Thinner and smaller size, at least on our local shelves.

Certainly no need to buy a carton, for just 2.

I believe that Tom Tyson went to their website and they make other sizes, as long as you want a pallet load.

As Kent and others have mentioned,it is used to keep the FG from migrating into the woofer openings that do not

have the plastic fly screen over their basket openings.

Some of the older AR woofers had this grey plastic fly screen glued over the basket openings.

Obviously glueing, cutting and applying these small pieces was a lot more costly than just inserting one sheet.

As long as it is not made of polyurethane or crinkly clothe, just about anything will do in a pinch.

Updated 20010622 5:25 pm + 6:10 pm + 6:20 pm

The woofer on the right has the flyscreen attached.

[JKent]

Hi there

You can use just about any material, such as burlap, etc.

After you weigh out the fiberglass you can tear it up up into chunks.

Just to add my 2 cents...

Roy and/or John have recommended crinoline, but as Vern said any material will probably work. You want it fairly sheer but tight enough to keep the FG out of the woofer. Allison used fiberglass window screening. Old grille cloth should work too. Any fabric store will have something--maybe remnants for cheap.

I would not tear FG batts. Better to cut with big scissors or put it on a cutting surface and place a board on top. Kneel on the board to flatten the FG and cut with a mat knife.

Kent

[DON]

Just to add my 2 cents...

Roy and/or John have recommended crinoline, but as Vern said any material will probably work. You want it fairly sheer but tight enough to keep the FG out of the woofer. Allison used fiberglass window screening. Old grille cloth should work too. Any fabric store will have something--maybe remnants for cheap.

I would not tear FG batts. Better to cut with big scissors or put it on a cutting surface and place a board on top. Kneel on the board to flatten the FG and cut with a mat knife.

Kent

Thanks Dan and Kent. I haven't done much work on my speakers this week. Spent a full half day at my cardiologist and the other half getting an eye exam and new glasses. $270 :(

My woofers have the screens and the magnets are square.....at least the outer shape is square. Neither of the speakers I'm using for my project had all the fiberglass still in the cabinets so I'll just have to weigh the material. I'm going to Lowes to look for the Johns M. product since it may be easier to work with than the pink stuff I have.

Today I received a real jewel! A brand new, in the original box AR2ax. Looks as it's never been touched by human hands since Mr. AR made it. Absolutely pristine with all the documents in the same condition. It's like opening a time capsule............well for me it is. I last opened new AR2ax speakers in about 1973 except they were the European style with dark brown grille cloth. It has the mdf or particle board back instead of the plywood so I guess it's one of the newer models...........someone here knows for sure! I know capacitors age by time and not use and the foam surrounds may be crumbly but I'm excited and want to try it out. Some of you most likely saw this speaker on e-bay. I hesitated to buy just one speaker but the seller agreed to ship it and I wanted it and I got it! B)