KLH 6

[ajohn1]

I just blew the dust off my original KLH 6s from the 60s. I need a source for speaker grille cloth that comes closest to the original and also need a set of badges (doesn't everyone?). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[JKent]

I just blew the dust off my original KLH 6s from the 60s. I need a source for speaker grille cloth that comes closest to the original and also need a set of badges (doesn't everyone?). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

WELCOME TO THE CSP!!

Now, as for your grille cloth... that all depends on what was on there originally. Some Sixes had a brown & black tweed cloth like some Seventeens, others had a beige boucle like the Twelves (and others). In all cases I believe there was a backing fabric of sheer black. My suggestion: Sign up for Michael's weekly add and use their coupon for 40% off. Go to the store and look at the linen in the cross-stitch section. . Irish Linen or a similar fabric was used on many early New England speakers, and although it is not an exact match for the original KLH cloth, it has an appropriate “vintage” look. The linen can be purchased at reasonable cost at Michael’s craft stores. Look for CharlesCraft Irish Linen cross stitch fabric 28 count in “Tea.”

http://www.charlescraft.com/shoppingcart/c...ve&catid=30

Michael’s also sells Zweigart 28-count Cashel Raw Linen and M.C.G Textiles 32-count Belgian Linen in naural. Both work well. There are other linens that look good. 18-count Linen in “lambswool” color from this site is especially nice for classic speakers:

http://www.123stitch.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.pl?item=59-135X

It may not be an exact match for the original but it will have an authentic look. The 1-2-3- Stitch fabric is more expensive but it's nicer--it's what the authors of the AR3a Restoration guide recommend. I'd skip the black backing. Who needs another layer of cloth to dampen the sound? btw--the cloth recommendation was cut and pasted from my KLH Model Eight restoration manual, available in the CSP Library (plug )

The badges come up for sale on ebay but they're getting expensive. Check to see the size you need and whether they are the glue-on or the screw-on. I'm pretty sure you need the larger screw-on type. Maybe a member here has a spare pair.

Good luck!

Oh. And be sure to recap those speakers. The original caps used by KLH were unimpressive and may well have cracked by now. They are almost certainly out of spec.

Kent

[ajohn1]

Wow! That was fast! Many thanks for the info on the grille cloth. I have a Michael's close by and will make a stop there. The Tea color was closest to my original. My serial #s are 147080 and 147087 and, as mentioned, I bought them new in the late 60s. I believe my badges were glue-ons. How I misplaced them is a mystery. Being an admitted novice, do you have any info on the caps, who to buy from, installation, etc.? I'm fairly handy with a soldering gun and believe I can install them myself. I just need directions before I jump in the water. Again, I thank you for the immediate response. It is greatly appreciated.

Allen

[JKent]

Hi Allen

If you check the Library here, there's a Model Six schematic:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...manual_pg4.html

Looks like each speaker takes two 2uF and one 8uF cap. The 2uF originals may very well be a "double" but just replace them with two caps.

Discussion of caps could open a can of worms, but here goes: The originals were electrolytic, Electrolytics are cheap but only last 15-25 years. Everyone here would agree you should use film caps.

The schematic in the Library says "oil caps". If that's the case with yours you may not have to replace them. But if you have the black PVC caps with red ends, you MUST replace them. They are long past their prime and have probably failed, exploded, or deteriorated so they are WAY out of spec.

What brand etc. is where you run into controversy. Many people use Dayton caps from Parts Express. Others like Solens from PE or Madisound. Both of those sites also have MUCH more expensive caps.

Personally, I like the Carli mylars. They are good and cheap.

Here are some specifics: Madisound has the Bennic polys. 2.2uF (close enough) is $1.26 each. 8.2uF (also close enough) is $3.65 each.

They have Solens: 2uF is $2.19 ea. 8uF is $4.37 ea.

Carlis are $0.54 each for 1uF (just use 2 in parallel) and $1.76 for 8uF

Want to go crazy? Mundorf Silver/Gold is ON SALE for a mere $124 each (2.2uF) and $237 each (8.2uF)

At Partsexpress, their house brand Daytons are $1.48 for 2uF and $3.21 for 8.2uF.

They have more expensive brands also

Of course you don't "have to" stick with one brand. You could use 2.2uF Bennics and 8uF Carlis if you want to save some money but don't want to solder the 1uF caps in parallel.

Variations of 10% are perfectly OK--you can use 2.2uF caps when the schematic calls for 2uF.

Any questions? Lots of folks willing to help here.

Also be sure to read the AR3a Restoration manual:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...ring_the_ar-3a/

Although this is specifically about the AR3a, MUCH of it applies to speaker restoration in general. You will find info on removing the woofer (and replacing it later with the appropriate caulking), removing the fiberglass stuffing, selecting caps. There is also info on replacing the grille cloth, but I think your Sixes probably have 1/8" Masonite panels, not the 1/4" found on the AR. So stapling won't work. I like Aleene's Tacky Glue. This is covered briefly in the KLH Model Eight restoration booklet I referenced in post #2.

Also search the KLH forum for threads on re-capping or rebuilding crossovers. There may or may not be something specifically about the Sixes but there were a lot of similarities in KLH speakers and you can find useful info. Looking at the schematic, it appears the Six had a crossover very similar to the Seventeen and Twenty. It appears the only difference is that the Six had 3 terminals on the back, with a shorting strap, and there was a 0.4mH inductor in the Woofer circuit. Otherwise the 6 and 17/20 crossovers appear identical. There are a number of threads on those speakers, like this one:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=5587

Kent

[JKent]

Oh--and while you're in there take a look at the 3 ohm and 7.5 ohm resistors. I've seen burned 5 watt resistors in KLH Fives and Twelves. If your Sixes have 5 watt resistors you may want to think about replacing them with 10 or 12 watt. PartsExpress has nice Mills resistors as well as sand cast wire wound. Madison has Mundorf, Eagle and cast.

Kent

[ajohn1]

Hello Kent,

Well, you have armed me with so much research that I might decide to retire and pursue this full time. So much to learn. Yes, my 6s have the 1/8" masonite grilles, but I am considering building up the insides an additional 1/8" around the edges (a 5/8" wide strip) to accommodate 1/4" light duty Swingline staples hopefully without damaging the masonite. Or should I stick with glue? Is the glue just as easy to use? The original cloth was stapled with hairline staples obviously less than 1/4" deep. 30 or so years ago, I reupholstered the grilles in white for aesthetic reasons. And yes, the staples broke through. I just sanded all the protrusions flat so I don't want to mess this up again. Your advice is appreciated.

As far as the caps and resistors go, I'll just close my eyes, point and order. Probably Daytons caps and Mills resistors from

Partsexpress. Or would Solens caps and Mundorf resistors from Madison be better? Believe me, I will follow your advice to the letter. I'm sure as I dig in there will be other questions. I will keep you posted on my progress. Again, many thanks.

Allen

[JKent]

Hi Allen

Well I'm retired and my wife thinks I pursue this full time!

Your choice of Dayton and Mills sounds fine but EVERYONE it seems has an opinion on this, so ultimately you'll have to decide.

I tried the shim trick you describe with my KLH 33s, decided it wasn't worth the hassle. YMMV.

Also if you DO go that route use heavy staples and an electric staple gun. Refer to the AR3a booklet. Masonite is HARD!.

I run a bead of Alene's around the back edge, work of a CLEAN flat surface and work the glue into the cloth with my fingers, keeping it fairly taut as I go along. Let dry over nite, spritz with water and dry with a hair dryer--should come out nice and tight.

Good luck

Kent

[ajohn1]

Hi Allen

Well I'm retired and my wife thinks I pursue this full time!

Your choice of Dayton and Mills sounds fine but EVERYONE it seems has an opinion on this, so ultimately you'll have to decide.

I tried the shim trick you describe with my KLH 33s, decided it wasn't worth the hassle. YMMV.

Also if you DO go that route use heavy staples and an electric staple gun. Refer to the AR3a booklet. Masonite is HARD!.

I run a bead of Alene's around the back edge, work of a CLEAN flat surface and work the glue into the cloth with my fingers, keeping it fairly taut as I go along. Let dry over nite, spritz with water and dry with a hair dryer--should come out nice and tight.

Good luck

Kent

Hello Kent,

I just finished replacing the grille cloths with CharterCraft Irish Linen 28 count "Tea" and they look real good. I also just fired up both speakers and notice that one of the tweeters is not quite as loud as the other. I have yet to replace the caps because I'm afraid to tackle the job. I pulled a woofer, found cloth and fiberglass insulation and a rat's nest of capped wires with the 8uF cap visible. Where are the 2 2uFs? Do I need to remove all the insulation to find them and will I actually be able to get my hands in there to install new ones? And are the caps causing the volume problem? I guess I am proving what a novice I am when it comes to anything electrical. Your help, as usual, is appreciated.

Allen

[JKent]

Hello Kent,

I just finished replacing the grille cloths with CharterCraft Irish Linen 28 count "Tea" and they look real good. I also just fired up both speakers and notice that one of the tweeters is not quite as loud as the other. I have yet to replace the caps because I'm afraid to tackle the job. I pulled a woofer, found cloth and fiberglass insulation and a rat's nest of capped wires with the 8uF cap visible. Where are the 2 2uFs? Do I need to remove all the insulation to find them and will I actually be able to get my hands in there to install new ones? And are the caps causing the volume problem? I guess I am proving what a novice I am when it comes to anything electrical. Your help, as usual, is appreciated.

Allen

Congratulations on the grilles!

Now first a disclaimer: I have not worked on the Six. I'm assuming they are similar to the 17 and 20, which I have worked on.

The cloth is there to keep the fiberglass out of the woofer.

The 2uFs are probably attached to the back of the plate that the switch and speaker terminals are attached to.

Here is a photo of a Seventeen xo. You can see the 8uF to the left. The exploded black/red cap in the middle of the pic is a 2x2uF. The one black lead is common and the 2 red leads are the two 2uF leads. When you replace, just use two separate 2uF caps and wire them up the same way: one lead of each cap go to the same point.

Yes--remove the insulation and yes you will be able to reach inside.

And my belief is yes--the caps are the culprits. If they are the black caps with red ends, they are terrible.

[JKent]

Here are 2 examples of recapped 17s--one using Carli mylar caps and original resistors, the other Dayton poly caps and new Dayton resistors. Notice how one lead from each 2uF goes to the speaker terminal. The blue tape on the 8uF cap in the 2nd photo is holding the cap in place while some Goop cures, but I now prefer the cable ties as shown in the other photo. Hot melt glue is not recommended because the extreme heat could damage the cap.

Kent

[ajohn1]

Here are 2 examples of recapped 17s--one using Carli mylar caps and original resistors, the other Dayton poly caps and new Dayton resistors. Notice how one lead from each 2uF goes to the speaker terminal. The blue tape on the 8uF cap in the 2nd photo is holding the cap in place while some Goop cures, but I now prefer the cable ties as shown in the other photo. Hot melt glue is not recommended because the extreme heat could damage the cap.

Kent

[ajohn1]

Hello Kent,

I'll get used to this site someday. I attached a photo of my KLH 6 caps and resistors. The 8uF is blurred out on the left. Easy to replace. You can see the black (with red endcaps) 2uF cap on the base plate plus what looks like 3 resistors. Two of them are marked 3 (then upside down u - ohm?) 10% 7W. The third one in the middle has no markings on it. I am going to order Solens 2uF and 8uF caps. Any help on specific size resistors to replace the three existing ones from Madisound before I order?

Allen

[JKent]

Hello Kent,

I'll get used to this site someday. I attached a photo of my KLH 6 caps and resistors. The 8uF is blurred out on the left. Easy to replace. You can see the black (with red endcaps) 2uF cap on the base plate plus what looks like 3 resistors. Two of them are marked 3 (then upside down u - ohm?) 10% 7W. The third one in the middle has no markings on it. I am going to order Solens 2uF and 8uF caps. Any help on specific size resistors to replace the three existing ones from Madisound before I order?

Allen

Hey Allen

Oooooo... the evil Temple caps! They gotta go! Looks like the crossover is identical to the 17 and 20.

REMEMBER--the 2uF is really TWO caps in one case. Replace it with two 2uF caps.

Yes--upside down u means ohm (it's the Greek letter omega).

The other resistor is 7.5 ohms.

I see the 3 ohm Eagles at Madisound but no 7.5, and the 7 is out of stock. Nothing close in the Mundorf. They do have a 7.5 ohm, 15 watt Wirewound Resistor that I "think" is OK (other members please jump in here).

You may be better off going with PartsExpress. They have the very nice Mills resistors in 3 ohm and 7 ohm (I'm sure 7 is close enough to 7.5) They also have their Dayton non-inductive resistors in 3 and 7.5. Then you can use their Dayton caps in 2uF and 8.2uF or get the Solens in 2 and 8.2 from PE. 8.2 is fine for the 8uF.

In my photo above with the blue tape I used Dayton caps and Dayton wirewound resistors so that's what the job would look like but if I did it today I would probably use the Mills resistors and the caps would be attached like the yellow ones in the other photo, using cable ties and anchors. Those btw are available from PE, or hardware store, electric supply house, Lowes/HD. I put a small flat head screw through the anchor even though they have double-faced foam tape. This is described in the AR3a Restoration booklet.

Kent

[ajohn1]

Hey Allen

Oooooo... the evil Temple caps! They gotta go! Looks like the crossover is identical to the 17 and 20.

REMEMBER--the 2uF is really TWO caps in one case. Replace it with two 2uF caps.

Yes--upside down u means ohm (it's the Greek letter omega).

The other resistor is 7.5 ohms.

I see the 3 ohm Eagles at Madisound but no 7.5, and the 7 is out of stock. Nothing close in the Mundorf. They do have a 7.5 ohm, 15 watt Wirewound Resistor that I "think" is OK (other members please jump in here).

You may be better off going with PartsExpress. They have the very nice Mills resistors in 3 ohm and 7 ohm (I'm sure 7 is close enough to 7.5) They also have their Dayton non-inductive resistors in 3 and 7.5. Then you can use their Dayton caps in 2uF and 8.2uF or get the Solens in 2 and 8.2 from PE. 8.2 is fine for the 8uF.

In my photo above with the blue tape I used Dayton caps and Dayton wirewound resistors so that's what the job would look like but if I did it today I would probably use the Mills resistors and the caps would be attached like the yellow ones in the other photo, using cable ties and anchors. Those btw are available from PE, or hardware store, electric supply house, Lowes/HD. I put a small flat head screw through the anchor even though they have double-faced foam tape. This is described in the AR3a Restoration booklet.

Kent

Hello Kent,

I just ordered all Dayton caps and resistors from Parts Express. When it's all done, I'll email you with, hopefully, two like-new 6's. Thank you for getting me (and I see many others) through the difficult "process". I know that after doing it once, the next ones should be easier. It will then be time to tackle my Polk 10A and 12B Monitors.

Allen

[ajohn1]

Hello Kent,

As promised, I just wanted you to know that I now have a pair of 6s that sound fabulous, thanks to you and your advice and the help of my electronics engineer next door neighbor. Once we realized we had to remove the 3-way switch from the rear plate, things went relatively smooth. We did make one alteration worth noting. Since the new Dayton caps and resistors were longer than the originals, we soldered extension wires to the switch terminals so we could more easily solder them. Worlked great. Having experienced doing it once, I know I could do the next ones by myself. Keep up the good work on the site with everyone's questions. You are a valuable source of information.

Allen

[JKent]

Hello Kent,

As promised, I just wanted you to know that I now have a pair of 6s that sound fabulous, thanks to you and your advice and the help of my electronics engineer next door neighbor. Once we realized we had to remove the 3-way switch from the rear plate, things went relatively smooth. We did make one alteration worth noting. Since the new Dayton caps and resistors were longer than the originals, we soldered extension wires to the switch terminals so we could more easily solder them. Worlked great. Having experienced doing it once, I know I could do the next ones by myself. Keep up the good work on the site with everyone's questions. You are a valuable source of information.

Allen

Glad it went well Allen. As you can see in post #10, I extended the leads also. To tell the truth I don't recall if I removed the switch to do the work, but probably did. Sorry for not mentioning that.

Happy listening!

Any photos?

Kent

[ajohn1]

Glad it went well Allen. As you can see in post #10, I extended the leads also. To tell the truth I don't recall if I removed the switch to do the work, but probably did. Sorry for not mentioning that.

Happy listening!

Any photos?

Kent

Hi Kent,

I just received the below email on the classicspeakerpages forum. It was forwarded to me by the site monitors. I don't understand why it didn't come up in the Forum Topics like yours and mine did. He was responding to what we talked about. I wrote him back but have no idea if or how he receives it. Any help here would be appreciated.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...n&MSID=3598