Best tweeter Solution for AR3a

[oldguide]

I have just started redoing a pair of AR3as that I have owned all my life. Still have original manuals, etc. I have gotten far enough into the process to know my tweeter is dead but the woofer is in such good shape I did not realize the tweeter was dead until I actually took off the grill. I spent several hours this afternoon going through various threads regarding replacements and my head is spinning. I know about Layne Audio and AB and various exotic solutions people have proposed. From what I can gather the best solution is to find exact replacement drivers, which seems unlikely.

So what is the second best solution? Let me throw some parameters in so people don't go off the wall.

1) Drop-in is best.

2) Cost must be below $100 (for each driver)

3) To quote Carl, "it's about the music," not about everything being an exact replacement--which in this case looks impossible anyway.

Both Layne and AB, as has been pointed out numerous times, sell drop-in replacements, but give no specs. AB shows an "AR Tweeter" and "HisRes Tweeter" and a picture. that's it. Layne does not even have a picture. The latest post I can find mentions a driver by HiVi, which is 4 ohm, but says nothing about installation or how it sounds.

In short it would be nice if someone in one post could sum up the tweeter options, their cost, etc. So that in the future someone like me does not spend an afternoon scrolling through various discussions. Please don't misunderstand, the discussions were interesting and I learned a lot, but now the time has come to decide what to do.

(BTW--a similar response would be nice regarding the pots--although given the low cost of replacing them, that seems to be the way to go.)

Besides wanting a straight answer, I am also trying to decide whether the restoration is worth it if no replacement alternatives exist.

[Carlspeak]

Have you read thru this thread?

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=1649

A lot of work by a dedicated group of people went into a study to find a suitable replacement for the 3a tweeter. The data is there. The conclusions are there. Decide for yourself.

[soundminded]

I have just started redoing a pair of AR3as that I have owned all my life. Still have original manuals, etc. I have gotten far enough into the process to know my tweeter is dead but the woofer is in such good shape I did not realize the tweeter was dead until I actually took off the grill. I spent several hours this afternoon going through various threads regarding replacements and my head is spinning. I know about Layne Audio and AB and various exotic solutions people have proposed. From what I can gather the best solution is to find exact replacement drivers, which seems unlikely.

So what is the second best solution? Let me throw some parameters in so people don't go off the wall.

1) Drop-in is best.

2) Cost must be below $100 (for each driver)

3) To quote Carl, "it's about the music," not about everything being an exact replacement--which in this case looks impossible anyway.

Both Layne and AB, as has been pointed out numerous times, sell drop-in replacements, but give no specs. AB shows an "AR Tweeter" and "HisRes Tweeter" and a picture. that's it. Layne does not even have a picture. The latest post I can find mentions a driver by HiVi, which is 4 ohm, but says nothing about installation or how it sounds.

In short it would be nice if someone in one post could sum up the tweeter options, their cost, etc. So that in the future someone like me does not spend an afternoon scrolling through various discussions. Please don't misunderstand, the discussions were interesting and I learned a lot, but now the time has come to decide what to do.

(BTW--a similar response would be nice regarding the pots--although given the low cost of replacing them, that seems to be the way to go.)

Besides wanting a straight answer, I am also trying to decide whether the restoration is worth it if no replacement alternatives exist.

Here's an idea I would try myself and I may just do that with a pair of AR2axs later this year if the tweeters turn out to be dead. The AR3 and AR3a tweeter's claim to fame was its remarkable dispersion. I've never seen another single driver like it. Tom said it was only 5 db down at 15 khz 60 degrees off axis. Compared to those tweeters, in this one regard dispersion everything on the market today stinks. They are built to a different design philosophy. The AR tweeter's shortcomings were that they were not sensitive enough to overcome the woofer and it couldn't play loud enough. LST solved that problem by adding an autotransformer, three more tweeters, two at an angle and one next to the one on the front baffle horizontally. Lots of speakers tried tweeter arrays like Bozak Concert Grand, some of the early McIntosh's an the Infinity $50,000 IRS. It's only when I say tweeter array that people yell comb filtering.

What I'd do is try 4 very small tweeters like Dayton ND 20 FB in a tight array angled for wide lateral dispersion and wired in a series parallel combination. They are 4 ohms each. If you're a stickler, you can add a 0.3 ohm resistor in series with the array to bring the dc resistance from 3.2 ohms to 3.5. I'd bypass the AR potentiometer and ditch it replacing it with a 4 ohm L pad directly across the tweeters (including the resistor if you add one.) The main problem as I see it will be physically mounting it on an adaptor plate to fit the space the space the old tweeter came out of and getting the grill cloth back on. Some creativity might be needed there. Advantage, each tweeter has a sensitivity of 93db and can handle 15 watts. They also cost only about $5 each. They should play plenty loud. I also liked the old Audax 3/8" to 3/4" mylar tweeters and their clones but there is only one titanium model left on sale at Parts Express and the other brands still available don't seem to measure up. They were about two or three dollars apiece more expenisive.

As for someone else manufacturing a true AR reverse engineered replacement tweeter, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

[Pete B]

I have just started redoing a pair of AR3as that I have owned all my life. Still have original manuals, etc. I have gotten far enough into the process to know my tweeter is dead but the woofer is in such good shape I did not realize the tweeter was dead until I actually took off the grill. I spent several hours this afternoon going through various threads regarding replacements and my head is spinning. I know about Layne Audio and AB and various exotic solutions people have proposed. From what I can gather the best solution is to find exact replacement drivers, which seems unlikely.

So what is the second best solution? Let me throw some parameters in so people don't go off the wall.

1) Drop-in is best.

2) Cost must be below $100 (for each driver)

3) To quote Carl, "it's about the music," not about everything being an exact replacement--which in this case looks impossible anyway.

Both Layne and AB, as has been pointed out numerous times, sell drop-in replacements, but give no specs. AB shows an "AR Tweeter" and "HisRes Tweeter" and a picture. that's it. Layne does not even have a picture. The latest post I can find mentions a driver by HiVi, which is 4 ohm, but says nothing about installation or how it sounds.

In short it would be nice if someone in one post could sum up the tweeter options, their cost, etc. So that in the future someone like me does not spend an afternoon scrolling through various discussions. Please don't misunderstand, the discussions were interesting and I learned a lot, but now the time has come to decide what to do.

(BTW--a similar response would be nice regarding the pots--although given the low cost of replacing them, that seems to be the way to go.)

Besides wanting a straight answer, I am also trying to decide whether the restoration is worth it if no replacement alternatives exist.

It seems that you're looking for a practical solution as I read your post which

is a refreshing point of view. Post 20 in this thread shows how to modify the

crossover for the A/B tech tweeter. I've not tried it and it seems to require

reversing the tweeter connection:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...amp;#entry64036

I think that there are simpler solutions but I've not had a pair of AR-3a's to work

on ... yet. I've offered several times to take a look at a dead AR-3a .75" tweeter but

I've not seen one ... yet. Don't expect to get a concensus here as far as alternatives

go, it's the internet after all, LOL. They ought to pin the thread with Ken's tweeter

study since it is such a common question.

[oldguide]

Have you read thru this thread?

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=1649

A lot of work by a dedicated group of people went into a study to find a suitable replacement for the 3a tweeter. The data is there. The conclusions are there. Decide for yourself.

Thanks for the answer.

That's the thread I spent all afternoon on and it left my head spinning, I apologize for not being a sound engineer or electronics technician, I'm just a guy with a pair of speakers whose tweeters have gone bad and wonder what to replace them with. The rebuild manual--which buy the way is absolutely superb, is based on the AB Tech speakers, but the gist of the thread seemed to be they were over-priced and not that great.

The thread itself got me nowhere, other than it is plain no replacement with the identical specs exists--but it did not recommend which tweeters to buy. It was especially frustrating when it ended with a recommendation for tweeters that no one had previously discussed. So let me put it more bluntly--if you were rebuilding which tweeter would you buy?

It would seem someone could just put together a list and say, here are the alternatives, here are their pluses and minuses and here are their costs.

[ar_pro]

Finding a pair of 3a tweeters on eBay should be relatively easy.

Without naming names, there's a fellow who regularly trades in AR parts, and has a good reputation - do a little searching.

Have you figured out why your tweeters are dead?

[oldguide]

Finding a pair of 3a tweeters on eBay should be relatively easy.

Without naming names, there's a fellow who regularly trades in AR parts, and has a good reputation - do a little searching.

Have you figured out why your tweeters are dead?

Not to be feisty, but that answer gets me nowhere. I have been on eBay for over a week and not seen a thing. One guy has ONE midrange original--that's it. As one who has been an EBay user for almost a decade, mostly for computer parts, eBay is no longer the bargain it once was, The new rules will make that even more problematical. Frankly all this intrigue about not naming names is ridiculous--this isn't a CIA secret. I have searched Google for original AR parts and come up empty, so if you know something Google does not know please tell me and quit the BS.

BTW, the tweeters are dead according to the rebuild manual (so are the midranges)--which so far is the only useful thing I have found on this site along with the other materials in the library. Ran an Ohm meter test on them and they came up dead. The woofer registered fine.

So one more time: can some one or a bunch of someones simply place on one page the alternatives for tweeter replacement. I don't think that is asking so much. All I want to see is a simple outlining of possibilities so those whose stumble on this page after me do not waste what is now now going on six hours.

1) For example Layne Audio is one, but what are the specs? Or do they just get their stuff from AB?

2) The aforementioned AB Tech solution is another, with its high prices, needed modifications and questionable value. Most of all, what are its specs?

3) I have seen references to Morels, which I am leaning towards. What do people think about those? At least they have specs.

4) There was also a reference to a HiVi driver with no explanation or documentation.

Obviously there are tradeoffs with all of these: price, performance, ease of installation, "closeness" to the original drivers, etc. Heck you could build a simple spreadsheet with all the variables. I'd even volunteer to start it if if you folks who know better would fill in the blanks. This isn't rocket science.

As for the "purists" the drivers are dead, Period. I don't need exotic solutions coupling five drivers which the poster apparently wants me to try out before he has (Tom Sawyer had that nailed a long time ago). I have what I consider the best woofer ever made and the pots are gone (please no posts about did you try to clean them--yes) and a system I have hung on to for almost half a century because quite frankly as several people have pointed out, nothing matches it.

I am currently running PSB's since these went down, but miss my ARs. But if the ARs are not repairable or people here want to obfuscate the issue it is time to move on. The money--and time--spent on this site and trying to repair the ARS could go into new speakers.

Anyway, if a newbie can start a list like this I would think you folks who know what they are doing could fill in the blanks. Or is this forum one of those that does not want to alienate manufacturers and so shies away from making judgments. I don't know who the site master is, but you put up something like that and I guarantee you will be rising quickly in the Google ratings.

In the five hours I spent trying to answer this question, I discovered a neat group of people who know more about AR speakers than I know about everything else. But my time and patience are wearing thin. I have another life. At this point my inclination is to go with a prebuilt crossover unit and speakers from Parts Express. PA puts both Layne, AB and these pages to shame for straightforward help. I have been a customer for many years (you guys rebuild speakers, I rebuilt computers) and found their service and quality top of the line. In fact I find it strange it is not referenced more in these posts. They have found a market niche-DIY--and done well by them. For some reason no on else is aiming at that market.

So again, can you put the list together or not?

The question, for the third time, what are the alternatives to tweeter replacement for Ar3as? If this forum cannot answer that in a straightforward manner then I wonder about its usefulness. I have a dead tweeter, if you had a dead tweeter, what would you do?

[joelongwood]

I have a dead tweeter, if you had a dead tweeter, what would you do?

This is probably heresy to some around here, but life's too short to worry about whether my tweeters are functioning exactly as AR intended............. I know my ears ain't what they used to be! So I would purchase two of these, drop them in, and sit back and enjoy the music.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-AR-3...1742.m153.l1262

These are offered by Larry at Vintage AR, a very helpful and knowledgeable AR guy.......you might want to contact him for his thoughts.

BTW.....forget Layne Audio, as they are long gone.

[soundminded]

Not to be feisty, but that answer gets me nowhere. I have been on eBay for over a week and not seen a thing. One guy has ONE midrange original--that's it. As one who has been an EBay user for almost a decade, mostly for computer parts, eBay is no longer the bargain it once was, The new rules will make that even more problematical. Frankly all this intrigue about not naming names is ridiculous--this isn't a CIA secret. I have searched Google for original AR parts and come up empty, so if you know something Google does not know please tell me and quit the BS.

BTW, the tweeters are dead according to the rebuild manual (so are the midranges)--which so far is the only useful thing I have found on this site along with the other materials in the library. Ran an Ohm meter test on them and they came up dead. The woofer registered fine.

So one more time: can some one or a bunch of someones simply place on one page the alternatives for tweeter replacement. I don't think that is asking so much. All I want to see is a simple outlining of possibilities so those whose stumble on this page after me do not waste what is now now going on six hours.

1) For example Layne Audio is one, but what are the specs? Or do they just get their stuff from AB?

2) The aforementioned AB Tech solution is another, with its high prices, needed modifications and questionable value. Most of all, what are its specs?

3) I have seen references to Morels, which I am leaning towards. What do people think about those? At least they have specs.

4) There was also a reference to a HiVi driver with no explanation or documentation.

Obviously there are tradeoffs with all of these: price, performance, ease of installation, "closeness" to the original drivers, etc. Heck you could build a simple spreadsheet with all the variables. I'd even volunteer to start it if if you folks who know better would fill in the blanks. This isn't rocket science.

As for the "purists" the drivers are dead, Period. I don't need exotic solutions coupling five drivers which the poster apparently wants me to try out before he has (Tom Sawyer had that nailed a long time ago). I have what I consider the best woofer ever made and the pots are gone (please no posts about did you try to clean them--yes) and a system I have hung on to for almost half a century because quite frankly as several people have pointed out, nothing matches it.

I am currently running PSB's since these went down, but miss my ARs. But if the ARs are not repairable or people here want to obfuscate the issue it is time to move on. The money--and time--spent on this site and trying to repair the ARS could go into new speakers.

Anyway, if a newbie can start a list like this I would think you folks who know what they are doing could fill in the blanks. Or is this forum one of those that does not want to alienate manufacturers and so shies away from making judgments. I don't know who the site master is, but you put up something like that and I guarantee you will be rising quickly in the Google ratings.

In the five hours I spent trying to answer this question, I discovered a neat group of people who know more about AR speakers than I know about everything else. But my time and patience are wearing thin. I have another life. At this point my inclination is to go with a prebuilt crossover unit and speakers from Parts Express. PA puts both Layne, AB and these pages to shame for straightforward help. I have been a customer for many years (you guys rebuild speakers, I rebuilt computers) and found their service and quality top of the line. In fact I find it strange it is not referenced more in these posts. They have found a market niche-DIY--and done well by them. For some reason no on else is aiming at that market.

So again, can you put the list together or not?

The question, for the third time, what are the alternatives to tweeter replacement for Ar3as? If this forum cannot answer that in a straightforward manner then I wonder about its usefulness. I have a dead tweeter, if you had a dead tweeter, what would you do?

You seem unwilling to accept the fact that the rest of us have and that is that there are NO available replacement parts that exist in the world that perform comparably to the original. Even those parts which have survived over these decades and continue to function DO NOT perform the way they did when they were new 30 years ago or more. The thread you poured over is only one more example of the frustration many have felt. Yes you need to get over it. You have several options. You can search until you find what you think are replacement parts because they were once perfectly functioning AR3a tweeters and if you find them, install them and pretend that you have restored their performance to the original, you can buy one of the tweeters AB Tech or Layne Audio or other posters here like, that are available and live with knowing they are different, you can try to engineer something you feel is comparable yourself as I have suggested, you can live without any functioning tweeter, or you can forget the whole idea and sell or give them to someone who might try his own solution. We have beaten this dead horse into the ground again and again and we are just as frustrated and disappointed as you are but we have no easy satisfactory fixes. If you come up with one, let us in on it, I'll bet almost everyone here would be only too happy to hear a better answer.

[Carlspeak]

Soundminded's post of early today put it best. There are no perfect or simple solutions. Joelongwood's suggestion is a good one, but I believe the Ebay seller is simply buying AB Techs tweeters and marking them up a few $ to cover his costs. Tweeter specs (other than impedance) won't help much unless you are very familiar with speaker technology. As an aside, the lack of specs for other drivers from ABT has been a source of frustration I have written about here for quite some time.

The AR3a tweeter has an atypically large flange. Most, if not all, tweeters available today from sources other than ABT and Vintage AR are smaller in size and require an adapter plate. If you aren't into fabricating adapter plates, go with the drop in from AB Tech with the inductor add-on mod and be done with it.

I have other alternatives of my own design that require a crossover change and adapter plate that are used in my Super-Mod. PM me for more details if any interest.

[johnieo]

So what is the second best solution? Let me throw some parameters in so people don't go off the wall.

1) Drop-in is best.

2) Cost must be below $100 (for each driver)

3) To quote Carl, "it's about the music," not about everything being an exact replacement--which in this case looks impossible anyway.

Hi Oldguide:

Ken Kantor has spent considerable time and effort in finding a crossover modification that will match the AB Tech tweeter to the original AR-3a tweeter. It does not have quite the wide dispersion of the original, but it is the best available. It meets your three criteria (1) drop-in, (2) cost is ~$70 each, (3) as close to an exact replacement as is available.

Have you downloaded the AR-3a restoration document? If not, you will find it in TCSP Library. Look under Acoustic Research / Original Models / Schematics Service. It should contain all the details needed to add the 0.07 mH inductor in parallel with the new tweeter. Options are given for either retaining the potentiometers, or replacing them with L-pads.

I have used this this solution; it works well and does not require re-invention of the wheel.

Cheers,

[oldguide]

OK, here is my contribution to the forum. The spreadsheet lists the alternative I could find and the costs. It is in Excel so it could be put in the library and modified.

I can't claim to have found all the alternatives, but maybe it will help someone like me in the future.

Thanks to everyone for being so patient and willing to beat a dead horse one more time.

Special thanks to Joe for the eBay link.

Went to upload the excel file and it failed. If site admin would like it I will email. Otherwise here is JPG.

[Guest winters860]

I'm sorry, but for all the flailing and knashing of teeth, the only good solutions seem to be original tweeters or the replacement model available from AB Tech or Vintage AR with slight crossover modification.

The prices for both these solutions seem to be about equal or will be soon. The downside of the original tweeters is that some materials used in their construction may be at the end of their lifespan. The downside of the AB Tech replacements is that their off-axis response is poor compared to the originals. Perhaps, at a later date, a better direct replacement may become available, but the economics of scale suggest otherwise.

Other solutions may exist for the adventurous, but none have come close to gaining community acceptance. Roy C's super-mod is an intriguing project, but the cost prevents me, personally, from seriously considering it. Certainly, there's room for somebody to find a way to make an off-the-shelf tweeter work in the AR-3a. The fine gentlemen who wrote the restoration guide worked hard to do so, and in the end felt it best to rely on the AB Tech tweeter. However, their project came from the standpoint of preserving the original sonic characteristics as closely as possible. Others might have different goals. If you've got an idea, by all means, try it. Test it. Tell us your results.

That really is the summation of the whole issue. It's not ultimately satisfying, but there's no need to get snippy.

[RoyC]

Roy C's super-mod is an intriguing project, but the cost prevents me, personally, from seriously considering it.

That would be Carl's (Carlspeak) super-mod :-).

Anyway, I've done much experimenting, and agree that the AB Tech tweeter (which, BTW, is definitely the same one being re-sold by Vintage AR, Simply Speakers, etc) is the easiest way to go. I personally prefer a slightly smaller, off-the-shelf .05mh parallel inductor with a .8 to 1 ohm resistor in series with the tweeter, and an l-pad instead of the original pot. The sound is quite good, and probably better than many of the original tweeters wheezing out there these days. I have NOT noticed dispersion differences to be an issue of concern.

Roy

[kkantor]

Hey, I just noticed that Madisound is closing out some "classic style" Vifa 3/4" domes.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1647.

These might be worth looking at as a replacement for the AR tweeters, especially since 3/4" domes are getting pretty rare. It's not going to be a drop fit, electrically or mechanically, but these guys have pretty good dispersion by contemporary standards, and would probably reward some crossover modification effort. The frequency region where their far-off-axis dispersion becomes a little rough is rather high, and so this is not likely to be a serious audible deficiency. Also, they are cheap!

Note: I used to be affiliated with Vifa, but haven't been for some time, and have no commercial interest at stake. Just happened to see the tweeters on sale. I do know that Vifa generally makes a well-engineered, consistent product.

-k

OK, here is my contribution to the forum. The spreadsheet lists the alternative I could find and the costs. It is in Excel so it could be put in the library and modified.

I can't claim to have found all the alternatives, but maybe it will help someone like me in the future.

Thanks to everyone for being so patient and willing to beat a dead horse one more time.

Special thanks to Joe for the eBay link.

Went to upload the excel file and it failed. If site admin would like it I will email. Otherwise here is JPG.

[genek]

You can search until you find what you think are replacement parts because they were once perfectly functioning AR3a tweeters and if you find them, install them and pretend that you have restored their performance to the original

My approach to this situation would be to search out working original replacement parts because they were once perfectly functioning originals, install them and be satisfied that I had repaired my speakers to the same state they would have been in at their age if their tweeters had not gone dead on me. Then, if I felt the highs were inadequate. I'd research components and devote my experimenting time to trying to reinvent a modern AR-3st to add onto my original speakers.

[Guest winters860]

That would be Carl's (Carlspeak) super-mod :-).

D'oh! Sorry. I knew that! Much respect to both of you.

[oldguide]

Interesting that Ken Kantor should mention the Vifas, because to add to the spreadsheet (which apparently went nowhere), I found a resource you folks already know about, but I did not. the Do-It-Yourself-Loudspeaker Selection Guide. The reason I went there was to run through their lists using the criteria outlined in what should be known as the Ken Kantor tweeter thread.

I also ran through all the tweeters listed at both Parts Express and Madisound. Besides the one Ken Kantor mentioned here are three more. Both are larger than the 3/4" spec but otherwise are relatively in the ballpark other than for the 89 db sensitivity. The dome size is actually closer to the one inch dome for the AR3. My main criteria was to first sort out all the 4 ohm drivers. Being new to this, I don't know if it was the right place to start, but I assume it was there to match the impedance of the system.

As most of you know, there aren't many 4 ohm tweeters being made any more. Here are is what I did find.

The most questionable is a Dayton RS28A-4 1-1/8" Aluminum Dome Tweeter. My understanding is that aluminum domes are more for car speakers and have a characteristic sound to them, but Parts Express claims this one does not. Specifications: *Power handling: 100 watts RMS/150 watts max (with appropriate crossover) *VCdia: 1-1/8" *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.0 ohms *Frequency range: 1,600-20,000 Hz *Fs: 600 Hz *SPL: 91 dB 2.83V/1m *Dimensions: A: 4-1/8", B: 3-1/4", C: 1-3/4". Price: $48.65 [All three are at Parts Express]

The next is the Vifa DX25TG-05-04. Specifications: * Power handling: 140 watts RMS/400 watts max * V.C. Diameter: 1" * Znom: 4 ohms * Re: 2.75 ohms * Frequency range: 2,000-40,000 Hz * Fs: 650 Hz * SPL: 93.5 dB 2.83V/1m * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 4-1/8", Cutout Diameter: 3-1/8" Mounting Depth: 1-1/8". Price: $28.57

The more intriguing one is a new Vifa XT25TG30-04 1" Dual Concentric Dome Tweeter that has been getting some nice reviews. Specifications: * Power handling: 99 watts RMS/140 watts max * Nominal impedance: 4 ohms * DC resistance: 3 ohms * Frequency range: 1,500-40,000 Hz * Magnet weight: 8.5 oz. * Fs: 500 Hz * SPL: 91.5 dB 1W/1m * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 4-1/8", Cutout Diameter: 2-15/16", Mounting Depth: 1-13/16", Magnet Diameter: 2-15/16". Price: $49.66

I found a response graph for it, if that will help.

At this point I kick it over to the experts about suitability. All will require xover modifications and plate modifications since the original driver is 4 3/4. I see Carl with his customary attention to detail uses metal adapters for his supermod, but could you use a wood adapter that would be bonded to the cabinet? It looks like 4 1/8 is the standard. Not having the slightest idea of how to build crossovers, I leave it to the experts to decide whether any of these even have possibilities and how extensive the changes would need to be.

Judging by the replies the dead horse lives or is still being beaten.

[johnieo]

Judging by the replies the dead horse lives or is still being beaten.

You may feel that, but let's redo your spread sheet and limit it to 3/4" domes. There was a reason AR switched to a 3/4" dome when designing the AR-3a. If we do that, my spreadsheed would include these moderate- to low-cost alternatives:

a) used original from e-Bay whose performance depends on its history

AB Tech new

c) the batch of Viva 3/4" that Ken described above, which need an adapter / x-o mod

Sometimes I can't find my eyeglasses because I'm wearing them.

Cheers,

[Carlspeak]

The adapter plates I fabricate are not made of metal. They are made from 1/4 inch MDF and have drilled c'sunk holes to accept the original flat head screws into the original holes. This makes life easy for the customer with minimal mechanical skills.

With regard to the Vifa tweeters on closeout from Madisound, they are a good buy now, but when they are gone....they are gone. Perhaps an Ebay entrepeneur will buy most of them up and dole them out at a nice profit to future AR enthusiasts looking for tweeter replacements. A year from now there will be another guy like you looking for the same thing. In a futile effort he will discover Vifa 3/4 inch 4 ohm domes are history. That is exactly why I developed my Super-Mod with 1 inch Seas tweeters as noted in my development document. I knew at the time that most of the traditional Vifa line was being abandoned by its new owner Tymphany Audio. Grab 'em while you can because others (more knowledgeable than I) are convinced there simply isn't a significant market for an exact AR 3/4 inch dome replacement. ABT is the closet thing that will be available - hopefully......

[oldguide]

Here is the revised chart reflecting what seems to be the consensus of the group so far. Again it's a JPG file so the links don't work. I would be glad to send as an Excel file, but can't unless there's something about the upload I don't understand.

Thanks to everyone for all their input.

Special thanks to johnieo for link to Vintage AR. Found some used tweeters there. So I guess my problem is solved and hope the chart will help others.

Here are the links:

Vintage AR

AB Tech

Carl's Super Mod

Vifa Closeout

AR 3A Restoration Guide

One final comment: to the people who put the restoration guide together: it is quite simply one of the best written, best illustrated, best explained guides I have ever seen. If any reader comes across this post RUN don't walk and download that guide before you DO ANYTHING.

So now on to the restoration, including a redo on the cabinet (carpentry I know). Will let you know how it all turns out in a few months when all is done.

Thanks to everyone on the site for being so free with the expertise and time.

This dead horse is ready to run.

[Pete B]

Here is the revised chart reflecting what seems to be the consensus of the group so far. Again it's a JPG file so the links don't work. I would be glad to send as an Excel file, but can't unless there's something about the upload I don't understand.

Thanks to everyone for all their input.

Special thanks to johnieo for link to Vintage AR. Found some used tweeters there. So I guess my problem is solved and hope the chart will help others.

Here are the links:

Vintage AR

AB Tech

Carl's Super Mod

Vifa Closeout

AR 3A Restoration Guide

One final comment: to the people who put the restoration guide together: it is quite simply one of the best written, best illustrated, best explained guides I have ever seen. If any reader comes across this post RUN don't walk and download that guide before you DO ANYTHING.

So now on to the restoration, including a redo on the cabinet (carpentry I know). Will let you know how it all turns out in a few months when all is done.

Thanks to everyone on the site for being so free with the expertise and time.

This dead horse is ready to run.

A potential low cost solution, I'll probably order a pair, the high Fs should

help make duplicating the response easier:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8316

[RoyC]

A potential low cost solution, I'll probably order a pair, the high Fs should

help make duplicating the response easier:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8316

Hey Pete,

That one looks promising. Hi-Vi Research is producing excellent drivers for the price.

I've had some luck with another <$10 Hi Vi tweeter with a wide enough flange to fit without modification. It is 4 ohms with a relatively high fs as well, but has the larger, 1 inch dome. I used a parallel .06mh inductor, 1 ohm series resistor, and 3.3uf cap in place of the original 6uf cap.

Roy

[oldguide]

You guys are going to keep me busy, but this dialogue is fascinating.

So here's the new chart.

[oldguide]

Roy,

Was just looking at your picture and noticed the heavier gauge wire you used on both the mod and the tweeter. What gauge did you use? Was there a particular type/brand of wire? Most of all, how did you mate it with the original tiny wires?

As I get ready to rebuild mine, those wire are a real concern. They seem so fragile and they can't be very efficient.