Speaker break in, myth or fact?

[soundminded]

Hard as I find it to believe, many people including a few whose opinions I respect although not engineers swear to me that some speakers sound better after a so called break in period. Can this be? A loudspeaker is not like an automobile engine where piston rings machine the last few ten thousandths of an inch of cylinder wall during a 10,000 to 20,000 mile break in period. This goes against the grain of my intuition having many reports that manufacturers such as Acoustic Research and KLH at least in their heydays manufactured to such close tolerances that they guaranteed performance within +/- 1db of the prototype. It also goes against the grain of my experience in high tech manufacturing plants were final quality control checks and random sample destructive and non destructive testing is routinely performed to check product performance and durability. How can a manufacturer be sure of the performance of his product if it needs further improvement after it goes out the factory door? How does the speaker know when it is done breaking in and not continue to change? Why wouldn't "break in" be part of the manufacturing process if it was needed. Are the materials and adhesives really in need of use tempering before they perform as expected or is it the consumer who becomes accostomed to the sound? After a so called break in period, does the tempered product measure or sound different from an identical unit that hasn't been broken in and is there any documentation to this fact? This occured to me because of Tom's posting that the AB Tech Tonegen woofers which are probably in my AR9s as well would loosen up with time. What do you think?

[Guest Bret]

Bret

[Guest Bret]

Silver one is the old one.

Bret

[tysontom]

>Hard as I find it to believe, many people including a few

>whose opinions I respect although not engineers swear to me

>that some speakers sound better after a so called break in

>period. Can this be? A loudspeaker is not like an automobile

>engine where piston rings machine the last few ten thousandths

>of an inch of cylinder wall during a 10,000 to 20,000 mile

>break in period. This goes against the grain of my intuition

>having many reports that manufacturers such as Acoustic

>Research and KLH at least in their heydays manufactured to

>such close tolerances that they guaranteed performance within

>+/- 1db of the prototype. It also goes against the grain of

>my experience in high tech manufacturing plants were final

>quality control checks and random sample destructive and non

>destructive testing is routinely performed to check product

>performance and durability. How can a manufacturer be sure of

>the performance of his product if it needs further improvement

>after it goes out the factory door? How does the speaker know

>when it is done breaking in and not continue to change? Why

>wouldn't "break in" be part of the manufacturing process if it

>was needed. Are the materials and adhesives really in need of

>use tempering before they perform as expected or is it the

>consumer who becomes accostomed to the sound? After a so

>called break in period, does the tempered product measure or

>sound different from an identical unit that hasn't been broken

>in and is there any documentation to this fact? This occured

>to me because of Tom's posting that the AB Tech Tonegen

>woofers which are probably in my AR9s as well would loosen up

>with time. What do you think?

This is an excellent message, and I think it is basically correct. In retrospect, I think my statement about the Tonegen woofer "loosening up" was presumptuous, and wishful thinking. I don't know at all that it will loosen up. It most likely will not change much over time, if any at all.

Back in the glory days of AR, each loudspeaker was guaranteed not only to work properly and reliably, but also to meet certain performance specifications for a period of five years. The exact parameters were not published, per se, but the frequency-response graphs -- both on- and off-axis -- were supplied to anyone, and AR guaranteed that every AR speaker shipped out the door would meet those specifications. Each speaker must meet its specifications or it would be repaired or replaced at AR's expense. For example, if you got a speaker from AR, and at some point you felt confidently that it had too much distortion or had a response problem, you could return it to AR and be tested. If the company found a problem, it would be repaired or replaced at no cost, and shipping costs to and from the company were reinbursed to the owner.

What this implies, of course, is that the speaker was designed to work a certain way from day one. I am confident that this is true. Despite the perceived stiffness of the Tonegen woofer, its resonance is not likely to lower perceptibly over time -- perhaps a little -- but not much. Furthermore, I think this speaker "break-in" phenomenon is from the minds of certain imaginative, yet unscientific, audio-speaker testers, who often contend that speakers, like car engines, must be broken in before they are listenable.

--Tom Tyson

[Guest lmrosenthal]

Hi Tom,

You said:

“Furthermore, I think this speaker "break-in" phenomenon is from the minds of certain imaginative, yet unscientific, audio-speaker testers, who often contend that speakers, like car engines, must be broken in before they are listenable.”

Tom, I haven’t purchased new speakers since my pair of 3a’s back on 1970. However, I have been looking at new speakers for my den. I’ve read dozens of reviews in several publications, and almost all reviews discuss break-in time, sometimes up to 100’s of hours. Ok, maybe the reviewers are suffering from the “break-in” phenomenon you discussed above. But……..I’ve auditioned a few speakers and looked at the owners manual and here’s what I’ve found:

B&W CM4: “As a guide, allow up to a week for the temperature effects to stabilise and 15 hours of average use for the mechanical parts to attain their intended design characteristics.”

Vandersteen 2ce Signature: I talked with Mr. Vandersteen and he said: “the 2ce’s will require 25 to 50 hours of playing to fully break-in.”

Meadowlark Kestrals: “Your KESTRELS will take several hours of playing to begin to sound proper. The bass will fill out, and the treble will smooth out considerably during this time. Full break-in takes the equivalent of a few days of playing time.”

Soliloquy 5.3: “The conditioning or break-in process happens naturally by playing music. The first noticeable sonic improvements will occur in the first 50 hours……..Further, but more subtle improvements will occur over the next 150 hours.”

I should add that I’ve looked at Paradym, PSB and NHT as well, and they do not mention anything about break-in.

So, I’m confused. If, as you say, speaker break-in is a phenomenon, why are the above manufacturers (especially Vandersteen and Soliloquy) so specific about it?

Regards,

Larry

[Guest Bret]

>This occured to me because of Tom's posting that the AB Tech Tonegen woofers which are probably in my AR9s as well would loosen up with time. What do you think? <

Soundminded,

I’d never really thought about this, like this, before. I share your question.

Whether we talk underwear or automotive fan belts or bushings or whatever, anything with an elastic property gives up at least some of its elasticity over time. With fan-belts they seem to stretch quickly and then “stop stretching” for the most part. But we don’t have to constantly re-tighten every 60 days to keep them functional. So, fan-belts break-in, so-to-speak, and quit stretching.

Any manufacturer that makes something that’s elastic that doesn’t take it into account would be remiss, right? If you manufactured a speaker surround to give you “x” elasticity, you’d have to take into account that it *is* going to stretch, at least some, or you’d be ignoring the obvious.

Then there is the “motor” part of a speaker to take into consideration. I’m not familiar with anything that is truly frictionless, but even if a tweeter were manufacturer to be frictionless, what happens to it when it heats-up? And what would be the average anticipated temperature of the voice-coil? The physics of the thing demands some “wear.”

I’m coming to the conclusion that whether break-in is suggested or not, it does happen. The question is whether or not manufacturers take that into account. The bigger question is whether or not it matters-much. Certainly the throw of a woofer is going to change a little and if nothing else a tweeter’s response is going to change at least a little, due to heat, every time it is played. You know “serious” manufacturers are getting away from using ferrofluid because it has some strange hydraulic effect of some sort. Little things evidently matter (at least in theory).

On the North Creek sight they will sell you “matched drivers.” In order to match the drivers they do a break-in first. Whether or not you and I can hear a mismatch of 1db notwithstanding, evidently the test equipment will show it and they feel break-in is necessary.

As for some manufacturers suggesting a break-in and others not suggesting it, all I can think of is that those who don’t are just neglecting to mention it since the break-in or break-down will occur whether or not we do it on purpose.

Maybe Ken will break-in here (pun intended) and tell us. Not long ago he was wondering about the effects of gravity forcing “slumping” and changing an old driver’s properties or distortion figures. I’m fairly certain not even AR would have calculated the effect of 40 years of gravity on a driver, but it would be interesting to know if they took into account the consequence of the first few hundred hours of play. The most helpful thing to know would be if they used “broken-in” driver specs when first sitting down to design a speaker.

Bret

[Guest]

A good topic...the notion of "breaking in" a loudspeaker turned up in the late '70s to early '80s, and gained momentum in the pages of "The Absolute Sound", and the like. It's an accepted "Truth" now, and many manufacturers have apparently decided to endorse the notion, rather than take a scientific stand. Which begs the question: Why don't the manufacturers "break in" their own products, so that they will be ready for *immediate* use? Why don't any of them have the courage (as Acoustic Research had) to state that their speakers are ready to go, right out of the box?

Also, are there any other electric motors that require a "break-in" time to reach proper spec, or is this concept just limited to loudspeaker drivers?

All things being equal, my guess is that its the listener's *perception* of the loudspeaker's sound that changes over time, which is more a matter for a psychologist than an engineer.

[tysontom]

>

>Hi Tom,

>

>You said:

>

>“Furthermore, I think this speaker "break-in" phenomenon is

>from the minds of certain imaginative, yet unscientific,

>audio-speaker testers, who often contend that speakers, like

>car engines, must be broken in before they are listenable.”

>

>Tom, I haven’t purchased new speakers since my pair of 3a’s

>back on 1970. However, I have been looking at new speakers

>for my den. I’ve read dozens of reviews in several

>publications, and almost all reviews discuss break-in time,

>sometimes up to 100’s of hours. Ok, maybe the reviewers are

>suffering from the “break-in” phenomenon you discussed above.

>But……..I’ve auditioned a few speakers and looked at the owners

>manual and here’s what I’ve found:

>

>B&W CM4: “As a guide, allow up to a week for the temperature

>effects to stabilise and 15 hours of average use for the

>mechanical parts to attain their intended design

>characteristics.”

>

>Vandersteen 2ce Signature: I talked with Mr. Vandersteen and

>he said: “the 2ce’s will require 25 to 50 hours of playing to

>fully break-in.”

>

>Meadowlark Kestrals: “Your KESTRELS will take several hours of

>playing to begin to sound proper. The bass will fill out, and

>the treble will smooth out considerably during this time. Full

>break-in takes the equivalent of a few days of playing time.”

>

>Soliloquy 5.3: “The conditioning or break-in process happens

>naturally by playing music. The first noticeable sonic

>improvements will occur in the first 50 hours……..Further, but

>more subtle improvements will occur over the next 150 hours.”

>

>I should add that I’ve looked at Paradym, PSB and NHT as well,

>and they do not mention anything about break-in.

>

>So, I’m confused. If, as you say, speaker break-in is a

>phenomenon, why are the above manufacturers (especially

>Vandersteen and Soliloquy) so specific about it?

>

>Regards,

>Larry

>

Larry,

Good gosh! I've opened up a can of worms here. I think, however, that what most of these manufacturers are trying to say is that there is a certain stabilization that occurs (perhaps acclimation to the environment), and that something fresh off the assembly line will reach its desired performance level after a few hours' normal playing time. However, some of those manufacturers you first mention are anything but mainstream builders -- some are more into speaker "art" than science (yet certainly B&W is at or near the top of this business, and their comment is more reserved and practical). The more engineering-oriented manufacturers, such as the second group you mention, probably don't adhere to the notion that "break-in" is necessary for the speaker to sound right. AR certainly never ever mentioned it to my knowledge, and I doubt that Bose, Boston Acoustics and other respected manufacturers would adhere to that notion.

My earlier comments about the "break-in phenomenon" reflect more on the speaker testers and reviewers from some of the fringe magazines that insist that a speaker can't sound properly without many hours of "break in." They suggest is that a speaker drastically changes character after this break-in period, and the difference in sound is like "night and day." That sounds like nonsense to my way of thinking.

I doubt that there would be much qualitative difference in sound in something fresh off the production line vs. the same device after several hours use, let alone any measureable difference. There really should not be any significant difference. And if you had to break in a new speaker, how could you determine the proper way to do it? How much power? At what frequency? It goes without saying that using sine waves or white noise or other test signals to test a speaker, long-term, is abusive to a speaker unless the signal level is very low.

--Tom Tyson

[tysontom]

>

>Maybe Ken will break-in here (pun intended) and tell us. Not

>long ago he was wondering about the effects of gravity forcing

>“slumping” and changing an old driver’s properties or

>distortion figures. I’m fairly certain not even AR would have

>calculated the effect of 40 years of gravity on a driver, but

>it would be interesting to know if they took into account the

>consequence of the first few hundred hours of play. The most

>helpful thing to know would be if they used “broken-in” driver

>specs when first sitting down to design a speaker.

>

>Bret

>

One additional comment here: AR did indeed address the issue of "sag," but it was slightly different from Ken's notion of the effects of gravity on the driver. AR always warned against placing an AR speaker, face-down or face-up, for extended periods of time, because the suspension would sag. This would cause the woofers to compress inward or stretch outward, and therefore one should not store a speaker in this fashion. The skiver and spider both would permanently stretch under those circumstances, and this could necessitate driver replacement.

--Tom Tyson

[soundminded]

It seems to me that a manufacturer of top notch equipment wants his products to leave his factory ready for use by the customer and immediately give all the satisfaction of the capabilities build into it. When they open a pair up in a showroom for set up as a demo against the competition, they aren't going to worry about breaking it in. When the customers drags his newly bought unit back to the showroom as tells the salesman the one you sold me doesn't sound like the one I heard here, mine must be defective, do you think he will take kindly to being told, go break it in for a week or two and then come back? When a design engineer selects materials for constructing his design, he is faced with choices and criteria two of which are long term stability and reliability. Good products are often sold by word of mouth when someone hears his friend's equipment out in the field. Hearing someone say, it didn't sound good at first, then it sounded good for a while, then it didn't sound good any more probably won't come as much of a recommendation. I personally would NEVER buy a loudspeaker or any other electronic component that required a break in period if I knew about it in advance. I find it hard to believe that manufacturers actually believe what they are telling their customers in this regard and not just pandering to audiophiles telling them what they think they want to hear. What other electronic equipment can you think of that would carry this kind of recommendation. I can't think of any.

Eventually some speaker surrounds will dry out and crack, some electrolytic capacitors will leak, some potentiomenters will become noisy or develop dead spots (I've replaced the one in my Marantz 3800 preamp at least 4 or 5 times and it's time to do it again) but this is normal wear, not initial break in. I simply don't accept that this is the norm and I will take a lot more convincing to change my mind. How does this square with ISO 9000 or ANSI or ASTM? Perhaps I'm just "Old School."

[ninohernes]

Adcom talks about a break in period for thier equipment, so does Hafler. I know this is true, because I purchaced an Adcom CD deck. When I first got it, it sounded harsh. After about a day or two, it smoothed right out to the best digital sound I have ever heard (Im not a fan of digital recordings). Same with my Hafler amp. Most manufacturs of phono cartridges also recomend a break in period, for thier cartridges to reach thier flattest response. Tubes also have to be broken in.

[Guest lmrosenthal]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply. I thought you'd find a section of a review that appears in total on the Stereophile website about the Soliloquy 5.3's interesting in the context of this thread It's quoted directly:

From Stereophile Magazine:

Soliloquy 5.3 loudspeaker

Kalman Rubinson, September 1999

“…..By the time the 5.3s arrived, I had forgotten almost everything about them except that it was I who'd written so favorably about them in my CES report. Whether I hooked them up to the hotrodded McCormack DNA-1 or the Sonic Frontiers Power-2 via a pair of Straight Wire Maestro II cables, the 5.3s sounded bright and boomy. There certainly was evidence of clarity and resolution, but the highs seemed excessive. At the other end, the bass was overripe, and the lower mids tended to bark when driven at anything approaching useful levels. Radio announcers were more difficult to tolerate than usual. Clearly, I had made an error of judgment at CES, the guys at Soliloquy had somehow screwed up, or—just mebbe—these babies were too new to be housebroken.

The instruction manual does say that 500 hours of break-in are needed. While you might not be able to put off listening to your new acquisitions that long, please reserve judgment for a few hundred hours.

Over the course of the next few weeks I moved the 5.3s closer together, then farther apart, all the while experimenting with their distance from the listening seat. I tried to reduce the bass bark by stuffing their rear ports with polyester batting. Nah—that only muffled the bass. Besides, the Soliloquies demonstrated their disdain by blowing the batting out with an emphatic PFOOOT! Finally, thinking that the drivers might be wired out of phase, I removed the jumpers from the binding posts and biwired the 5.3s for easy phase reversal. Which only made things worse.

Not knowing how to live without music, I left the 5.3s biwired to the Power-2, but with the recommended phasing. At this point the 5.3s stood more than 9' apart and less than 3' from the front wall—significantly farther from each other and the listener than is usual for speakers in my listening room. Toe-in was minimal, at about 5 degrees. Other large reflecting or absorbing objects were kept well away.

Weeks passed. Gradually, it dawned on me that WQXR's announcers no longer seemed to be swallowing their mikes, and surface noise from my thrift-shop LPs seemed smoother and less obtrusive. After seven weeks, the 5.3s had matured enough for me to remember why they'd so impressed me in Las Vegas.”

Tom, did you see that? 500 hours of break-in? Geez!

BTW, here's a direct link to the entire review:

http://www.stereophile.com/printarchives.cgi?459

Also, you mentioned above about one would break-in speakers. The attachment below is a gif file of the Soliloquy 5.3 owners manual about that subject:

It's so nice to know you can use ocean music at night, with speakers facing each other out-of-phase to break them in.

Wow.........!

Regards,

Larry

[Guest Bret]

>It seems to me that a manufacturer of top notch equipment wants his products to leave his factory ready for use by the customer and immediately give all the satisfaction of the capabilities build into it.<

Yeahbut, tubes have to "warm-up" as do tires. Surely Goodyear makes it's racing tires to perform during the race and not off the starting-line. Artists "break-in" very expensive paint brushes, and anything that's leather's performance has to be gauged "broken-in." I still like my fan-belt parallel best, but a tennis racket, a drum head, etc, all these things are built to perform but also built with "break-in" in mind.

Bret

[Guest Bret]

>I doubt that there would be much qualitative difference in sound in something fresh off the production line vs. the same device after several hours use, let alone any measureable difference. There really should not be any significant difference. And if you had to break in a new speaker, how could you determine the proper way to do it<

Tom, I'm with you, wire is wire. But, and it is a significantly large "but," we all know that the driver *must* change over time unless it is a solid state device.

Is the change significant?

Only someone with a lab is going to be able to tell us for certain.

Bret

[Guest Bret]

>The skiver and spider both would permanently stretch under those circumstances, and this could necessitate driver replacement.<

There's a good thing to be ever-mindful of. Thanks Tom.

Bret

[Carlspeak]

If I can add my two cents here I'd like to say that it's been my experiency with refoaming many woofers that after running them at their resonant frequency (X max) for about 8 hours at 2-3 volts ac input continuously, the Fs drops about 1 hz. I do the 'break in' as a normal service to my customers; many of which appear grateful for my doing this. However, I don't think a 1 Hz drop in Fs is going to have any perceptable affect on the listening experience as far as bass reproduction is concerned.

I've also heard but have no data to support this that electronic components like caps, resistors, wire,etc. tend to become 'acclamated' to the directonal flow of electrons passing thru them. That acclamation process is what, I beliee, people perceive as a smoothing out of the sound. I don't know if it's true. Perhaps a EE who's reading this with posting previlages could add a comment or two.

Carl

[kkantor]

I don't want to sound like a curmudgeon, but one could make a career out of logically countering the spurious claims of audio manufacturers. From low end to high end, the bullshit factor is enormous. There just isn't enough time! I know this leaves the customer very bewildered, since everyone claims to be an expert and a golden ear. All I can say is that I have no reason NOT to suggest speaker break-in. In fact, many people have a "buyer's remorse" let-down when they first hook up their new speakers at home. So, it is very convenient for speaker companies to suggest a day or two of break-in. No harm, no cost, fewer returned speakers. But the perceived changes are generally psychological.

If you have a fast connection, the following link may be amusing:

http://www.aural.org/resume_01_files/articles/fetish/

One of these months, I will make PDF's of these old publications. Meanwhile, here's something I posted a few years ago:

"Speakers are mechanical devices, and do have some degree of

"memory". We play each one before it leaves the factory, but

then who knows how long it sits unused, and at what temperature?

Generally, a woofer will be in top shape after a minute or two of

reasonable level play; a tweeter much sooner. But I have seen

rare extreme cases, for example, a ferrofluid tweeter had been

subjected to sub-zero temperatures and needed an hour of pretty

hard drive to get in gear. 99% of the time, I believe your ears

do much more adjusting than your speakers do after the first

minute or two of play."

A Google Groups search for "loudspeaker break-in" should also find some excellent comments by the late John Dunlavy.

[kkantor]

Mark,

I posted that awful JPG instead the proper link:

http://www.aural.org/resume_01_files/articles/fetish/.

For reasons that elude me, none of the normal editing (or reply) options appear on that particular post. If you get a chance, can you change the link, or tell me what I should do to get it to appear the usual way? Thanks... and sorry to those who got bogged down.

[administrator]

I fixed that link .. the graphic pushed the message body so far right that the normal options did not show, at least without scrolling the screen right.

I'm not sure if the forum software automatically displaying graphics file links is a good thing or not. Some people who post intend small charts and examples to appear in this manner, but then again some do not.

Mark

[kkantor]

Mark,

Would it be easy to put a size limit on in-line graphics?

-k

[kkantor]

The industry doesn't like to talk about it, but speaker break in is a sad fact in our modern world. If you experience a speaker breaking in, call the police immediately. This is a serious crime, and you need to act accordingly. Before the police arrive, make a list of anything stolen or damaged, along with its approximate replacement value. Of course, most speaker break ins occur in search of small, vulnerable speakers that can be made to work in rear channels and outdoor applications. In a smaller number of cases, speakers breaking in have been seeking love and companionship with a model of the opposite channel. Sometimes a speaker will break in looking to feed its addiction to Drums'n'Bass recordings, or other controlled substance. Have several neighbors experienced similar problems? Such information might indicate reflex criminal behavior.

Stay alert, keep your system where it can't be seen from the window, and always set up a decoy system to keep the thief away from the real stereo. Bose makes products for this purpose. For more information about speaker break in and how to avoid it, see my book, "Speaker Breakin, a Growing Menace," available through Amazon.

[Guest rickcee]

Hi not that I have any scientifc knowledge - funny, I have several times in the past rotated the speakers using the same screw holes - it just seemed that things 'settle' - even glass - old window panes, i believe, are thicker at the bottom from 'flow' . . . And as mentioned, the auto drive belt stretch probably applies to surround foam, or rubber surrounds. but to an audible extent ?

not to these ears. And I think the $50. a foot interconnect cables are sales baloney. But I'm cheap. Or poor.

Anyway, I strongly believe in law of diminishing returns, but that's a different subject. Rick

[roundhome]

Mr Kantor

I had a speaker try to break in and hold a setion in my house but it turned into a filabuster so I turned on my system and forced him off the floor with my (ten) AR 12 inch woofers, politics!!!!!!

Jim:P

[Guest Bret]

>see my book, "Speaker Breakin, a Growing Menace," available through Amazon<

Ken,

Put the pencil down, stand up, and back slowly away from the drafting table. The new speaker design will wait while you collect yourself.

:-)

I needed the grin today.

Bret

[Guest Bret]

>I doubt that there would be much qualitative difference in sound in something fresh off the production line vs. the same device after several hours use, let alone any measureable difference. <

I have it on good authority that this forum has a friend with brand new toys. Lots of really spiffy, shiny, new toys. The kind of new toys you dream about as a audio-enthusistic kid! No, in fact, these were beyond imagining when I was a kid. (although the owner probably thinks of them wholey as expensive tools, which is, of course, true)

I'll bet the measurability question can get answered in a very authoritative way, although he'd have to offer. I can't imagine what the time and resources must be worth in terms of dollars and cents.

Bret